Paid Positions in the Church

Trotter, In our association, we did away with supplied housing for pastors. This left the ministers vulnerable when they retired. They had no job and no house.

I pastored churches in the 200-250 member range and we never had paid staff other than the pastor and the custodian. I am not opposed to paying a stipend to the organist/panist, but surely there is someone who can do the job. I never had an assistant pastor at any time. Volunteers led the youth groups and the pastor was the overseer.

I think chuches want to grow too large rather than divide and serve. I had my hands full getting to know 200. I can't imagine 1000 or better.

Also, I never announced my personal needs, and God never failed to provide. When I went to a church, I stipulated that my wage should be somewhere between the highest paid member and the lowest paid member. That kept me average. I also took a few churches that couldn't afford ten dollars a week at the beginning. The Lord provided.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Uh, er, the conversation was about
cyber-stalkers. What are you going to shoot?
Your CRT (flat screen, if possible)?

BTW, have you ever knocked on the door and
had a person answer the door with some
artillery in their hand?
I did. I couldn't get my carpooler on
the phone to tell him I couldn't go the
next day. I was over by his house so
dropped by. There he was with a five
inch cannon (well, that is how it looks
when you look at it from the business end)
in his hand. I'm glad my business there
was legit.


Meanwhile, i see nothing wrong with
paying workers in church.

1 Timothy 5:17-18 (KJV1769)

Let the elders that rule well be
counted worthy of double honour,
especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
18 For the scripture saith,
Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn.
And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

 

Amen, brother Ed, amen!

In Christ,
Trotter

 

I have to admit that the thought of going into full-time ministry is a scary one, from a worldly point-of-view.

First, there is the drop in pay. I do not make a huge amount of money, but my yearly totals of late are the best ones I have ever had. I would be giving this up in full-time ministry, at least by 2/3, if not 3/4, of the total.

Second, there is the expense of moving. Yes, there are openings in my general area, but they do not seemed interested in me, so I am looking elsewhere. Moving an entire household is not easy or cheap.

Third, there is the subject of medical insurance. Many churches give their pastor a salary, but they never consider this particular issue. The costs of medical coverage have skyrocketed in the last few years, and many pastors are beginning to feel the pressure of that increase in their family budgets.

Fourth, there is the cost of housing. True, some churches provide housing (sometimes, very meager housing). But others figure that the pastor can pay for his own. Every family has to have a place to live, so a pastor must provide, no matter how meager his income.

As I said, from a worldly view, it is very bleak. But from God's perspective, it is far from it. Each of the above is an opportunity for the provision of God to shine forth. The Lord can and does work through situations such as those listed to show Himself faithfull, over and over.

So, even though it seems to be a scary proposition, it is one that I do look forward to. Not to try God, but to look to Him in a whole new way. It is just another step of faith.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

My position on paying people is to pay them well. By paying well you get good people and you get a person that feels appreciated. I can remember when I worked for a very large company and they paid me about 16 percent more than I could make working for someone else it made me feel good. But what I also found out is that the workers were better and produced more. The philospohy of the owner was that good workers don't cost, they pay. As Christians I think we should be especially generous.

My dad who is not a Christian told me of a pastor that rents from him who can hardly make ends meet as a retired pastor. How's that for a witness to non-believers?

 

My responsibilities at church involve leading 350 students in worship, discipleship, minisry, fellowship, and missions. I often work much more than 40 hours a week, leading at least one large group worship service and three small group Bible studies. I write and prepare sermons, write and tab music, provide counseling to students and families, go out into the community and reach kids, work with at least 30 small group leaders, and am one of ten on the ministerial staff who are in charge of leading a church with almost 5000 members. The youth group itself is the size of many churches, and yet we incorporate what we do with the rest of the church.

So, yes, I get paid for what I do. The church takes very good care of me, and pays a salary, health and life insurance, a housing allowance, paid time off, and other wonderful things. That said, I could make about three times my salary as a marriage and family counselor in the private sector (especially if I had finished my Ph.D. before being called to full-time ministry.)

At our church, our pianist plays on Sunday mornings, Sunday evenings, Wednesday choir practice, Thursday orchestra practice, and any other special events that we have. She is one of the most brilliant pianists I've heard and never complains, is always on time, and is a wonderful person to work with and sing with. Does she get paid? Yes - and in my own personal mind, she should get paid more for what she does.

Just my two cents...

 

AND we also have an excellent retirement/pension plan where the church and the SBC match what the ministers donate to their retirement plan. I am confident that I and my family will be taken care of when I retire from full-time ministry... I'm 25, so that won't be for a good while!

 

Trotter, I can guarantee that it will definitely be worth it. What you lose in cash, you easily more than make up with knowing you are in the center of God's will. Talk about blessings!

 

Scott is your health insurance thru the SBC annuity plan?
Murph

 

So tell me how one "retires" on God?
_____________________________________________

The question is foolishly stated, but ministers do retire. Some just don't have the good sense to step down when the time comes. Ministry does not end. Want to follow me around?

Cheers,

Jim

 

Yes, I believe that it is.

 

So tell me how one "retires" on God? </font>[/QUOTE]Okay, so anyone else notice the non sequitar here? Anyone?

Did I say that I am retiring on God? Of course not. "When I retire from full-time ministry" seems to be the operative phrase. I'm looking forward already to retiring and spending the rest of my days spoiling grandchildren, enjoying my wife, mentoring other ministers, teaching a Sunday School class, and so on and so forth. The difference is that I won't have to be at an office 40-50 hours a week. I will be able to enjot the benefits that my church and my convention so graciously are giving me.

And please don't intimate that our retired Jim is any less a man of God because he is, indeed, retired. Cheers back to you, my friend Jim!

 

Yes, I believe that it is. </font>[/QUOTE]It is not my intention to attack you here my friend but your statement indicates that you are one of the lucky ones who doesn't have to be concerned with not having health insurance thanks to the size of your church. Sadly even other SBC pastors do not have access to the same benefits at the same rates you enjoy even though we are all SBC supporters and brethren. While I am SBC and don't see myself changing any time soon, the hierchy and elitism practiced amoung our SBC, state convention and larger churches is a disgrace.
Murph

 

I completely agree. I personally believe that the SBC should be offering insurance to ALL full-time pastors and ministers. I don't take everything that the SBC stands for as Gospel, and this is one of those issues where you and I are in agreement, and the SBC and I are in disagreement.