Pants?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Jack Matthews, Sep 22, 2006.

  1. Jack Matthews

    Jack Matthews
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    There's a thread by this title on the Fundamental Only forum, and since I'm not a fundamentalist, I have avoided commenting there. But I really need an explanation here. I must have either been out of the loop somewhere, or not paying attention, or not ever in a place where it was an issue, or I'm just one of those men that doesn't pay attention to female issues and conversations, but is there some kind of tradition or teaching that comes from somewhere about women wearing pants? In my work environment, you never see a woman in a dress or skirt, they almost always wear pant suits. In any of the three churches I've belonged to, I can't recall seeing very many women in dresses or skirts, unless it is at a funeral or a wedding. If we go out to something special in the evening, my wife will wear a dress on occasion, but mostly, if we're going to the movies or a concert or something, she wears jeans and a t shirt.

    Am I missing something? Or am I just a male, and have no sense of style or taste when it comes to clothing?
     
  2. preachinjesus

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    I can't believe this is still an issue for churches.

    (A good question for here though)

    But then I look around at some churches that are doing 8-Track ministry in an iPod world and sort of guess this is to be expected. I'm just not sympathetic towards notions like this because I've seen too many people damaged by these kinds of beliefs.
     
  3. Gold Dragon

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    It comes from a cultural standard that no longer exists in much of North America. Some have adopted that cultural standard to be equivalent to the biblical modesty that Paul talks about in 2 Timothy 2:9.

     
  4. Jack Matthews

    Jack Matthews
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    I like that expression!:thumbs:
     
  5. Gold Dragon

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    I consider it equivalent to conservative Mennonite or Amish groups who hold to very old traditions on modest dress as a sign of their separation from the culture of the world. I respect their tradition of modesty and if I knew that was the type of church I was going to, I would encourage my wife and daughters to dress accordingly. Sort if like going to a foreign culture and trying to be respectful of their traditions.

    However there are a few cautions which some fundamentalists are able to balance. FBCPastorsWife's seems to have a good perspective.

    1) Not to judge those who are new and may not share their view of modesty initially.
    2) Not to let their view of modesty interfere with more important aspects of Christianity like seeing folks come to Christ.

    I guess a third caution is recognizing the huge cultural gulf between their church culture and those who may be seeking. But that is part of the reason for the different dress, to emphasize and reinforce that gulf.
     
  6. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed
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    This comes from Deuteronomy 22:5

    The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

    Of course, I would not want to see a woman in church dressed as a man, and I wouldn't want to see a man in church dressed as a woman.

    The pant-suits that are popular among women nowadays are not men's clothing.

    I would prefer that women wear a dress, just because I'm used to that, but I can find no fault in a nice pant-suit.
     
  7. Brother Bob

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    So, what about women wearing shorts to church?

    Is it still a cultural standard that no longer exists in much of North America, or is shorts still a no no, and if a no no then can

    you tell me why?

    I think we continue to move the "modest bar" to suit whatever we want to do. At one time it didn't have to be church for women not to wear pants, it was a tradition.

    Don't know how true this is, found it on google?

    . It is hard to believe that as recently as a century ago it was a misdemeanor for a person to wear clothes not “of their sex.” California did not make it legal for women to wear pants to the work place until 1995!
     
    #7 Brother Bob, Sep 23, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2006
  8. Gold Dragon

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    The cultural standard was that pants are for men and dresses are for women. This is a cultural standard that existed in Europe during the middle ages and extended into North American culture until around the 1960s when women started wearing pants as well.

    Shorts are not a gender related article of clothing and the issue there is about formal wear versus informal wear in church. Culturally, shorts are recognized as informal wear. The question is then whether it is appropriate for informal wear to be used in worship.

    Many grew up in a culture where formal wear was the only appropriate attire for worship on the grounds of offering the best in reverence to God. Of course there is no requirement for this in scripture where the NT church was probably had many poor folks who didn't have formal attire and rich folks who didn't have informal outer attire.

    A cultural shift towards formal attire being seen as "fake" and more informal attire being seen as "authentic/real" lead to some Christians desiring to worship God as they really are in less formal attire including shorts.

    Of course in some hot and less affluent areas of the world where churches don't have air conditioning and folks don't have formal attire, everyone wears shorts to church.
     
    #8 Gold Dragon, Sep 23, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2006
  9. Brother Bob

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    What you post is probably all true but even in your post I can see a shift to accepting shorts into the formal wear if time lasts. There was a time and not too long ago that pants on women was not considered "formal wear". It still raises eye brows at funerals of people that are not Christians but the world itself. Our formal wear in the US would not be accepted in other parts of the world. My question is are we changing the modest bar to suit ourselves? I think we should admit that "we" are the ones who are saying it is acceptable for our forefathers said it was not.
     
    #9 Brother Bob, Sep 23, 2006
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  10. Gold Dragon

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    My point is standards of modesty and ideas about clothing are things that are cultural and change with time and locale. So we should change the bar to suit the situation.

    I know that many conservatives like standards they encounter to stay the same, at least within their lifetime. But the reality is that in today's age of communication, change in cultural standards are rapid and avoiding to meet folks who have different cultural standards is an impossibility.
     
    #10 Gold Dragon, Sep 23, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2006
  11. LeBuick

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    I blame Laura Petri and her capri pants for the cultural revolution.
     
  12. mcdirector

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    But she was so cute in them. "oooohhhhhhh Rooooobbbbbbb!
     
  13. Scarlett O.

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    My grandmother died last week. I loved her and she loved me more than I could ever speak of.

    I wore a very nice pants suit to her funeral. It never once occurred to me that there are still christians who would consider that "informal". I know some still consider it a sin, but I didn't know a pants suit was informal.

    This "can women wear pants" tirade gets really old.

    If I had a dollar for everytime I've had the bad fortune to see a man have on a pair of pants that showed waaaaay too much of his anatomy, then I could buy that new Yukon I've had my eye on.

     
  14. Gold Dragon

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    ... misread a post.
     
  15. pinoybaptist

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    They's just old bunched up newspapers, sis, for vanity's sake.
    :)
     
  16. mcdirector

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    This is most likely it :tongue3:
     
  17. Jack Matthews

    Jack Matthews
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    Well, if you look at that passage in I Corinthians, jewelry and braided hair were considered outside the cultural norm. But, like most other things, it takes people a while to learn, and in the church, we should be patient and understanding, and use opportunities to teach. I can't imagine standing at the doorway of a church and telling people they can't come inside because of how they might be dressed.

    One of my younger brothers, who is a junior in high school, is pretty quick to point out the styles of clothing designed for people his age to accent particular features of their anatomy, both guys and girls. I was very happy to see that, not only does he recognize the feature but doesn't want to wear them. I overheard him telling a young lady on the phone that he preferred she not wear a particular pullover she had when she went with him on a date. I guess she asked him why, and he said, "It's too tight."
     
  18. Brother Bob

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    I had no idea that women were looking!!
     
  19. whatever

    whatever
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    Here is the answer to this age-old problem:

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
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    I plead my constitutional rights to the 5th amendment.
     

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