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Passover

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by robycop3, Sep 15, 2004.

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  1. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    Michelle, instead of posting long excerpts of scripture, please just post the the reference and your point. Your long excerpts prove nothing, and your accusations are getting more and more off the wall. I don't think that he's saying Christ isn't the passover lamb. Please prove where he says such.
    --------------------------------------------------


    Please do not tell me, what I can, and cannot post. I find posting what I do to show more of the context. Too bad if you do not like it. This is the way I post.

    Secondly, by robycops own comments, it seems to me he doesn't understand what the Passover is. Go read his post.

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    Michelle quoted:

    Jesus was/is the Passover lamb, and the passover feast that others were preparing for was coming as indicated in John 19:14. Jesus was sacrificed the exact same time the Jews would have sacrificed their passover lambs, as God had ordained it.[/i]
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    robycop said in response to the above quote:

    Again, a completely cockamamie view! The paschal meal had already been eaten...and in any case, Jesus gave up the ghost at roughly 3 PM on the same day, which had begun at sunset the previous day.
    --------------------------------------------------


    Now read the scriptures.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #41 michelle, Sep 16, 2004
  2. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Michelle, it was a request, not a command...if you look, you will see there is a "please" after it. There is no need to waste bandwidth on your incessant need to post long passages of scripture which in no wise prove your point.

    AVL1984
     
    #42 AVL1984, Sep 16, 2004
  3. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Also, Michelle, he still doesn't say that Jesus isn't the passover lamb. Your accusations are false.

    AVL1984
     
    #43 AVL1984, Sep 16, 2004
  4. Archangel7

    Archangel7 New Member

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    I would also challenge any KJVO defender to show where and when in the *entire* corpus of ancient Greek writings the word used in Ac. 12:4 -- πασχα (pascha) -- was *ever* used with reference to a pagan festival.
     
    #44 Archangel7, Sep 16, 2004
  5. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    Also, Michelle, he still doesn't say that Jesus isn't the passover lamb. Your accusations are false.

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    This is what I said:

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    You might really want to contemplate WHAT EXACTLY PASSOVER IS. By your above comments, you are saying that Jesus Christ is NOT THE PASSOVER LAMB.

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    and...


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    Secondly, by robycops own comments, it seems to me he doesn't understand what the Passover is. Go read his post.

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    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #45 michelle, Sep 16, 2004
  6. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    I'm pretty sure he knows what the passover is. Herein lies the trouble "it seems to me". It's always whatever "michelle" thinks. Ma'am, it's not all about you.

    AVL1984
     
    #46 AVL1984, Sep 16, 2004
  7. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    I'm pretty sure he knows what the passover is. Herein lies the trouble "it seems to me". It's always whatever "michelle" thinks. Ma'am, it's not all about you.

    AVL1984
    --------------------------------------------------

    I never said it was all about me, nor did I imply such. I was making a comment for his benefit, not my own and then explained to you, that what I said was not what you were saying it was. I am sorry you do not see it that way.


    All you seem to be concerned with is argueing and making it seem something was there, to which it was not. Why are you doing this?


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #47 michelle, Sep 16, 2004
  8. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    See, it still comes down to what you see, and what someone else sees. Then it is all about you. I'm sorry you have to be that way. I just get tired of your unfounded insults on people, attacks on people, and attacks on their opinions, etc. It would be nice if you would get away from the persecution complex and really just address the issues without the implied and the ad hominem attacks. [​IMG]

    I believe earlier in the thread that roby states that Jesus is the passover lamb, or at least implies it.

    AVL1984 [​IMG]
     
    #48 AVL1984, Sep 16, 2004
  9. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    See, it still comes down to what you see, and what someone else sees. Then it is all about you. I'm sorry you have to be that way. I just get tired of your unfounded insults on people, attacks on people, and attacks on their opinions, etc. It would be nice if you would get away from the persecution complex and really just address the issues without the implied and the ad hominem attacks.

    --------------------------------------------------

    First of all, this thread is about the Passover and the meaning of Passover, and what Passover is. My comments and posts have been in relation to this. You have come in off topic, and accusing me of things. I am merely defending myself against your accusations of me.


    I have done none of these things you have stated above in this thread. And I do not have any persecution complex. But I am being wrongly accused by you in the above, and I will always point that out and defend myself.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #49 michelle, Sep 16, 2004
  10. natters

    natters New Member

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    Whoo-hoo! Almost to page 5! [​IMG]
     
    #50 natters, Sep 16, 2004
  11. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    So, your accusations against Bro Tony, Robycop, myself, et al, are on topic? Whatever!!! LOL

    Robycop and others have given evidence after evidence of Passover/Easter, yet you continue to deny it because it would "rock your world" of belief in a false system. The KJV translators have put many words of their own choice in that didn't match the underlying texts to keep with their Anglican tradition. This, too has been pointed out time and time again, yet you discard that proof as "untrue". Have you even researched the information from unbiased sources? I highly doubt it.

    AVL1984
     
    #51 AVL1984, Sep 17, 2004
  12. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    LOL! I know the feeling! ;) Maybe we can "Pass Over" the rest of page four and hit page 5. [​IMG]
     
    #52 AVL1984, Sep 17, 2004
  13. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    Robycop and others have given evidence after evidence of Passover/Easter, yet you continue to deny it because it would "rock your world" of belief in a false system. The KJV translators have put many words of their own choice in that didn't match the underlying texts to keep with their Anglican tradition. This, too has been pointed out time and time again, yet you discard that proof as "untrue". Have you even researched the information from unbiased sources? I highly doubt it.
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    I have given you abundant scriptural support for Passover and what Passover is, and what days of unleavened bread is, and the scriptures themselves prove that they are not the same thing. I believe God, rather than your opinions. Easter, is in fact not wrong, nor in error.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #53 michelle, Sep 17, 2004
  14. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Can't have it both ways, Michelle. Just because you post long passages from the KJV doesn't mean you've PROVEN anything. That's just plain foolishness. Many here have used not only scriptural proof, but other proof as well to prove you wrong. Your circular reasoning isn't working. :(

    AVL1984
     
    #54 AVL1984, Sep 17, 2004
  15. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    Can't have it both ways, Michelle. Just because you post long passages from the KJV doesn't mean you've PROVEN anything. That's just plain foolishness. Many here have used not only scriptural proof, but other proof as well to prove you wrong. Your circular reasoning isn't working.
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    And just because many of you seem not to understand the scriptures regarding this, doesn't make the scriptures wrong, and they are the proof. The truth proves itself. The only circular reasoning that I am witnessing, is coming from those who try to prove Easter is wrong, which pull those trying to show you it is correct, into your own circular reasoning and arguments, and then claim we are being foolish and responsible for this.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #55 michelle, Sep 17, 2004
  16. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Michelle, [snip]. Your comments are getting sillier and sillier.

    First, your notion that there were TWO paschal meals a day apart is sheer ignorance. Passover is the second-most-sacred observance to today's Jews after Yom Kippur, and they carefully and strictly adhere to its exact dates from the Jewish calendar. Scripture and history show that the Jews of Jesus' time and place were very legalistic, carefully following the Mosaic law to the letter(if not in spirit). They had the Pharisees as teachers and enforcers of that law, and in fact their reasons for executing Jesus were their perceptions that He had repeatedly violated that law by performing miracles and other "work" on the Sabbath, claiming to be the Son of God, and that he had made Himself a king. It was known that jesus had eaten the paschal meal the previous evening, and if that had NOT been the CORRECT time, the Jews would've stoned Him and all the disciples for that act alone. They wouldn't have bothered to have found any other excuse for killing Jesus and His followers, for profaning Passover was considered to have been one of the greatest of sins by those Jews.(Read ANY authorative book on Judaism to verify the above!)

    THERE WERE NOT TWO PASSOVERS!

    Also, please take the time to read any authoritative book about Judaism to see they consider both the paschal meal AND the whole 7 days of unleavened bread to be PASSOVER...NOT just the paschal meal alone. Better yet...check with any rabbi!


    Second...Exodus 12 tells us both WHY God gave the Passover to Israel, AND what its ordinances are.

    God gave the Passover to Israel FOREVER, and nowhere does He revise that command. It is THEIR memorial that God delivered them from Egypt by His power, and if not for His actions, they'd have remained in Egypt.

    Jesus evidently observed every Passover during His earthly life when He became of age, same as every ordinary Jewish person did. He followed the Mosaic law both in letter and IN SPIRIT, unlike most of the Pharisees and many of the Jewish religious leadership. And His "Last Supper" was the paschal meal observed in its correct time.

    Jesus became OUR passover AFTER the paschal lambs were eaten & their remains burned, but ON THE SAME DAY. And, neither then, nor later, did He cancel the Passover command for Israel. Remember, the PHYSICAL Passover is a MEMORIAL for Israel forever. And not only is Jesus OUR paschal lamb, but He replaced ALL animal sacrifices to God, FULFILLING FOREVER all the laws of sacrifices.(Even though they're still on the "books".) By His PHYSICAL sacrifice and resurrection, He became our SPIRITUAL sacrifice. (None of the animals sacrificed were resurrected, of course!)

    And Jesus instituted Communion for all Christians, Jew & Gentile alike. This does NOT replace Israel's Passover, but is an additional observance. The Passover is for Israel; Communion is for all Christians.

    In all the Scripture you posted, Michelle, is there any mention of Ishtar? Is there any cancellation of Passover? Is there any hint of TWO Passovers?(You recently said you never said there were two Passovers, but apparently you've changed your mind) Is there any mention of Easter?

    IN FACT, IN MATTHEW 26:17, WHICH YOU POSTED, HE CALLS IT THE FIRST DAY OF THE FEAST OF UNLEAVENED BREAD! Time and again the Scriptures speak of passover and the feast of unleavened bread interchangeably.

    You say this is based ONLY upon one Scripture, Ezekiel 45:21? Well just HOW MANY TIMES must GOD repeat something before it becomes "official"? Plainly, the Jews during and after that time obeyed God's words from 'way back then, as they do NOW.

    [ September 17, 2004, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: Pastor_Bob ]
     
    #56 robycop3, Sep 17, 2004
  17. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    THERE WERE NOT TWO PASSOVERS!
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    I have never said there were. It is you and others who say there is, by claiming Easter is wrong, and passover is correct.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #57 michelle, Sep 17, 2004
  18. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    It was known that jesus had eaten the paschal meal the previous evening, and if that had NOT been the CORRECT time, the Jews would've stoned Him and all the disciples for that act alone.
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    As I have shown you with the scriptures, this is incorrect. The rest of your comments are speculation at best.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #58 michelle, Sep 17, 2004
  19. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    They wouldn't have bothered to have found any other excuse for killing Jesus and His followers, for profaning Passover was considered to have been one of the greatest of sins by those Jews.(Read ANY authorative book on Judaism to verify the above!)
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    As the scripture show and prove, the Passover hadn't yet come. Jesus Christ was/is the sacrifical Passover Lamb.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #59 michelle, Sep 17, 2004
  20. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    Also, please take the time to read any authoritative book about Judaism to see they consider both the paschal meal AND the whole 7 days of unleavened bread to be PASSOVER...NOT just the paschal meal alone. Better yet...check with any rabbi!
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    I don't really give a hoot, what the Jews "consider". I look to the scriptures for my understanding and final authority.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #60 michelle, Sep 17, 2004
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