Pastor Under Fire for Legislative Prayer

The oath in Kentucky for officials is as good as any other. Since you do not see fit to list your state, no one can comment on it.

As far as him praying before the assembly, they should not have asked him. Surely someone knew his demeanor before they ever asked. If they wanted a milk toast prayer they should have gotten a milk toast preacher. Personally, I love it, putting the Word of the Lord right in front of politician's face. I wish he would pray before the State of the Union for President Obama and Senate leader Mitch McConnell, and all the other moral giants.

As far as the controversy it generated, who cares? If there is anything to be done about it, that would fall under the bylaws of the local church he pastors if any.

 

He is a Baptist... Who can censure him?

 

I'm definitely not saying he's not a Christian, but this was not a sacred gathering in any sort of way. And I don't think prayer should be uses passive-aggressively in a political assembly where many are not Christians.

 

Only a local church he pastors as I said in my post. We have no hierarchy, thank goodness.

 

My question is, "Why would we NOT want to pray in public, especially in a mixed audience?"

One might think that involking God among the lost is wrong or something... :BangHead:

 

I am the first Christian in my family. My wife was the first Christian in her family. At this point in time the vast majority are now believers. Several of them are heavily involved in some kind of ministry they lead. When I pray I want to open the door for more conversations. It seems like at every gathering there are those who start asking me questions about my faith.

I always expect non-Christians to act and make decisions like non-Christians. I cannot condemn them and expect them to act and think like believers because they are not. I am unable to even comprehend why some would think they can expect the unregenerate to think and act like those who are following Jesus. when one considers what is too often published about leaders in denominations and some of the corruption I especially do not want to give them opportunity to even focus on that for a minute. So I stay focused on Jesus.

Two years ago I worked with a man that was rather hard and did not seem to be very open to spiritual things. I prayed for him and that God woiuld open doors. I made a deliberate effort to pray and ask God to give me things that I could praise him about. I always spoke well of him and others. My boss noticed how I brought the people together. I did that by finding things I could praise them about. I found that I learned a lot from them and everyone of them talked with me abut spiritual things. One of them told me that he had never opened up to anyone about his marriage. Among the people were two men who were at odds with one another and then one day I saw one of them having a nice talk with the other. That began to happen more frequently. They trusteed me because I refused to talk bad about any of them. I saw flaws, but pointing them out until they were ready to listen would not do any good.

When I pray I try to remember what John taught about Jesus in Jn 3:17, "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him." Over time as I have prayed I have had conversations with everyone of my family and relatives. People are drawn by love not condemnation. A public prayer is not about condemning others but about the God we serve. People know if we are passionate about God and if our prayers are to the living God. Numerous times after a prayer people have said that they wished they could be like me. Our love for them draws them to the God we serve and hopefully the God we serve is the God who really is. What I say to non-believers is very different than what I say to Christians. However all of them should be encouraged to seek and follow God. The rest follows the trail a person goes down.

Talking about the ills of society will not lead people to Jesus and give them hope in the risen Jesus.

 

I could not agree with you more.

What a great opportunity for God to use us and to open the door for more conversations. I know for a fact that one of my friends has had many conversations with a senator about decisions being made in our country. I seriously doubt anyone on BB would know my friend. I have had many conversations with a man who runs a company whose boss is very well known. That person has been thought of as someone who has more influence than anyone in America. Those kind of conversations do not happen by condemning people. When Nicodemus came to Jesus, Jesus could have pointed out all the ills of the Pharisees in an attempt to reform them, but instead He used wisdom and addressed the core issue with Nicodemus.

When one considers how few listen to the prophet in a church we need to consider how much less the people will listen in a mixed group. Our hope is in Jesus not a reformation of the ills of society. From what I read we have a lot of ills in so many of churches across America and yet there are those who focus on reforming or complaining about the ills of society. Judgment begins. . . . I can spend my time trying to reform the dead or spend my time making disciples who are alive and reach others.

Psalm 127:1 Unless the Lord builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the Lord guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain." who builds the house? Who guards the city? I do not see the names of believers or anyone else.

 

No, you might have actually been talking about milk toast, which, I believe, is a fine southern dish.

Why am I wrong? You saying it doesn't make it so. In fact, it makes me even more assured of my position.

 

What is wrong with praying anywhere? What are your rules as to the proper places to pray? It seems to me the Pharisees felt the same way. You know politicians are thieves basically, and most are there to serve themselves instead of the people. What possible harm could a Godly prayer do? If they were so worried about what he was going to pray, why didn't they check out his normal manner of praying, or ask him not to mention it. It is all staged anyhow. This is a man who speaks his convictions, and you are on a thread criticizing him. I have an idea. Please respond by writing out the prayer you think he should have prayed.

What did you expect." Lord, please bless the gaming industry to supply the needs of all those who do not want to work. Be with the Governor and legislators as they squander Kentucky tax dollars and protect their base of power. And Lord, give the lobbyists traveling grace and they go to influence those who are suppose to be representing the people."

 

Jesus gave one in Mt. 6:6 "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you."

I agree with you. Gambling increases crime in an area and the need for police increases. It also decreases property values.

Christians who once said the same thing about the stock market are now doing what they once preached against. How many pastors do you know who have retirement money being invested in the stock market by their respective denomination.

I am waiting for the day a pastor who speaks out against gambling also speaks out against supporting Muslims by the gas they buy.

The points and issues are endless and are always changing but their need to follow Jesus never changes.

 

Believe it or not, in our church minutes from the 1020's, there was a member disfellowshipped for investing in the stock market. The Bible does say we should work for our gain, but in some of the parables, it seems to say there is nothing wrong with getting a reasonable amount of interest. I am not sure that gambling is on the same level as investing in a stock market. One invests with money they have earned, based on an intelligent risk on how that company or mutual fund will do. It is a long term investment. Gambling and payday loan companies produce money one did not earn, and based on instant gratification. I am not justifying or condemning either, as I do not have enough moeny to do either. What savings I have is at a credit union at .75% interest, just barely above digging a hole in the back yard. When I think of prayer before an assembly of politicians, I am thinking they are getting a word from the Lord. I was not thinking of it in terms of the person who prayed getting the glory.

 

Now you're just being silly.

The issue is that a political assembly is no place for prayer of any kind. Public prayer belongs at church and in private gatherings. It is wrong to use prayer as a passive-aggressive weapon, not to mention spiritually abusive.

 

So, we dare not pray in our churches?

Right...

I expect that Jesus had a CONTEXT in mind when He uttered those words, for HE prayed in public, even when sinners were present often, but He also removed Himself from the public eye for private prayer as well.

Don't proof-text me with such an easily defeated passage... Sheesh, one might think that you have never read the Word or something.

 

Interesting...

Then why is it that our Congress -- THE Congress of the United States of America opens with prayer, by mandate and by example from the first Congress?

 

I guess whether the prayer should have been prayed at a political gathering is a matter of debate. However, you have to admit, from a planning standpoint, someone really dropped the ball allowing him to pray. I did not vote for this governor. He defeated a Republican governor named Ernie Fletcher because of some local scandals involving contracts and money. The choice was another one of those ones like we are facing for the Presidency this year, Obama and Romney, neither is acceptable. I held my nose and voted for Fletcher, but he lost.

 

The scandal was that Fletcher tried to dismiss some entrenched liberals from out of Frankfort (Commonwealth capital city) and the liberals blocked him at every turn. They claimed that he gave money to certain persons in order to grant them positions, when he in fact did not. It was enough bad press that the election -- and Fletcher was the FIRST Republican to hold the office in over 60 years -- fell back to a Democrat. All is well in Kentucky again... The Republicans are banished. :BangHead: