Pastor vote

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, Mar 16, 2007.

  1. Salty

    Salty
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    What numbers should be used to vote in a pastor, and / or vote out a pastor.

    I have seen numbers such as 75% to vote in and 65% to vote out.

    Thoughts? Any other items should be mention to such action?

    Salty
     
  2. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed
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    Our church uses a simple majority system for all votes, including Pastor.

    Frankly, if I were a Pastor, I would be wary about taking the care of a church where I was not supported by at least 90% of the church or better.

    Almost every vote in our church is unanimous. In fact, over the last few years, we have foregone "secret ballots" that we normally use to elect officers and have elected to keep the same officers by acclamation.

    In years past, we would have a first round of votes, typically getting 3 or 4 nominations, and the 2 highest vote-getters from that round would then have a head-to-head vote. Almost certainly, before the final round of voting, we would discuss the matter as a church so there would be as much concensus as possible.

    I would hope that a Pastor would have the support of 100% of the congregation, but less than 90% would make me question if I was a problem or if there was something bigger happening within the church.
     
  3. donnA

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    I think we use 80%. Our current pastor has been there 10 years, he wouldn't come unless it was 85%,, it turned out to be 98%
     
  4. Lagardo

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    Our church constitution require 90% to hire and a majority to terminate. To me, less than 90% can indicate some serious opposition to begin with. Although its hard to have a hard, fast rule.
     
  5. A2J

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    I once attended a church briefly that required a 100% vote for or against any type of major decision. Their reasoning was that a house divided against itself can't stand (Mark 3:25).

    My current church requires just a simple majority.

    AJ
     
  6. AAA

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    Only ONE VOTE!

    This is very common among the denominations in this country. Being voted in or out is not found in the bible. I believe that it takes ONLY one vote to put the pastor in or to take him out. That so-called vote belongs to GOD, even if all the memebers of the church vote him out!

    Remeber, PAUL, most of the church was against him at first, and GOD still voted him in as a preacher-evangelist.
     
  7. tinytim

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    I don't understand the difference in percents for putting in and putting out.
    Why not say, 90% to be in,
    90% to be out?
     
  8. Deacon

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    100%? Yuck
    Sure it's said that a house divided can't stand,

    ...but a house governed by the 100% rule probably wouldn't get built! :laugh:

    If my church could have a vote to set a date for our Lord's imminent return (tonite perhaps), I'm sure there would be at one or two hold outs, ...and at least one that would propose to make it later next week.

    Rob
     
  9. Lagardo

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    So how does God cast that vote?

    The rationale behind voting is that each member of the church can prayerfully seek the will of God, and thus guided by the Holy Spirit, will come to a clear decision. Politics has effected this process as church membership has become less and less meaningful.
     
  10. gb93433

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    Democracy is simply survival of whatever is the majority. If the majority are sick then democracy encourages sickness. If the majority are healthy then democracy encourages health.
     
  11. gb93433

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    God always has the last word.
    Sometimes he uses ways where the people have no choice. Things such as earthquakes and fire.
     
  12. AAA

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    If that were the case, then the apostle paul would never have been an evangelist, becuase the early church was against him after his conversion.


    Politics.......
    Lets just say...
    If everyone voted then...

    1.David would not have been king. His brothers were a better choice in the eyes of men.
    2. Paul would not have been an evangelist and we would not have 12-13 books of the N. T.
    3.Moses would not have lead the people into the land of promise, because he had some kind of speech problem (Ex 4:10)....
    4. Aaron (his staff budded) and his sons would not have ministered before the LORD.
    5. Etc.

    How does GOD vote....

    He does not have to, because HE is soveriegn.

    God speaks and men better listen and obey.

    :godisgood:
     
  13. Lagardo

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    Actually, it was the case. Those listening to God accepted him.

    Well, first you say God has the only vote then you say He does not vote. Which is it?

    I agree fully with you that God speaks and churches should hear and obey. However, it is not as simple as that. The voting process was started as an implementation of this idea. People put forth what they heard from God. Its been corrupted by politics within our churches, but if you have a better way to practice what you put forth, by all means, let's hear it.
     
  14. Lagardo

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    AAA,

    The aspotles had an interesting method of seeking God's choice. They cast losts.

    I have actually heard of a church casting lots to call a pastor, but I am not sure most churches have the faith to try this.

    Of course, in bringing in all sides of a debate, I have heard one interpretation (not one I agree with) that says the apostles were impatient in selecting Judas' replacement and God's choice was clearly Saul of Tarsus, not Mattias.
     
  15. Repairman Jack

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    Many churches will accept a simple majority and then ask for another vote requesting that the minority change their votes in order to get a unanimous decision.
     
  16. gb93433

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    Then they tell the pastor that they had a unanimous vote by the people and then deceiving him at the same time. He gets a big surprise later when he has to work with such kind of leaders.
     
  17. Bro. James Reed

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    So, if a church has no pastor, how do they get a new one?

    If the church has a pastor who changes his view of scripture, and starts preaching untruths, how do they get rid of him? Say he converts to Islam, but doesn't want to give up the pastorship of his church, and instead wants to convert them all? Is the church to do nothing or are they all supposed to leave and leave the church in the hands of this man?

    As Baptists, we believe in the priesthood of the believer, equal access to God by each believer, and no one is above another in the church. We are all equal. Thus, each member has a right to votethe dictates of their heart and the way they feel God leading them.
     
  18. gb93433

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    Your point is easy to understand. I would not worry about so much about a point so blatant. I would worry more about Satan's subtle deception. Most leaders who have made many disciples do not stray far from the faith. It is most likely someone who leads an organization who does not understand what is means to know God that is more susceptible to stray due to a lust for power and prestige. Leaders who aim to be a pastor shouild have already proven themselves by making disciples. If their leadership is not already proven among a few then why give them more to deal with? The proof of leadership is in the people who follow his lead. Too often congregations think a new pastor will change everything. Changes hearts is what chanegs people. Whne people lok at God that is when things change.

    I know of a church that has never had a "pastor" but has always had excellent leadership. The older leadership trains the younger leadership. The leaders come from the congregation. Many in the leadership have gone to a theological school.
     
  19. Repairman Jack

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    No, usually this is understood to be the practice. Both votes are entered into the record.

    The point is not to deceive anyone but to achieve consensus through submission to one another.
     
  20. gb93433

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    Whether they try to decieve anyone or not, they are deceived into thinking that consensus works. It is a manipulation ploy. It has never truly worked. It is a common practice done by manipulators in the world. Most churches do not know the difference betweeen what the Bible teaches about unity and what the world has led them to believe about consensus.

    Go to www.steelonsteel.com and type in consensus in the search box and it will come up with some messages on consensus. One of them reads, "consensus" is used systematically by governments, private corporations, churches and schools to con people into going along with hidden agendas. "

    When I see a church operate on consensus I run as fast as I can. I have talked with two churches which operated on the consensus model and both had serious problems. Both were dying and doing nothing. They spend so much time trying to get a consensus by twisting people's arms rather than recognizing that God made people different and that unity was from God not a consensus.

    There is a huge difference between unity and consensus. You will never see consensus in scripture. You will see unity though. Consensus is straight from hell. It is a lie and not at all the truth. Unity is from God. Unity is not consensus. Consensus is conformity. It is a molding of everyone and has no room for individuals. It works with those who do not have a backbone. Consensus does not recognize differences, giftedness, and leadership. It is the idea that everyone is on the same page and nobody leads. The real problems is that too often it is used to arm twist and exploit people.

    God's word is not a consensus of man and God. Spiritual giftedness is not a consensus of people. Giftedness draws out the distinctions among people.

    Consensus has never worked in business and it has never worked in the church.

    Too many churches are ignorant about what works in business. Yet they read about the latest guru and his claims. The average business fails within two years. Over 80% of the businesses started each years fail within two years.

    If we just stick to the model Jesus gave in making disciples we will be just fine in the church and also in business in the way we treat employees and employers
     

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