Pastors Need To Expose Billy Graham

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Pastor_Don_Kirk, Jan 22, 2002.

  1. Pastor_Don_Kirk

    Pastor_Don_Kirk
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    In church after church, I've heard pastors say go to a Billy Graham Crusade (or his son's) at _____ on ____.

    Billy Graham is one of the leaders of the World Council of Churches.... An organization, whose purpose it is, for ALL religions to modify their belief's, to accept one another's belief's and unify into one compramised world religion.

    I'm sorry, but that is Anti-Bible AND Anti-Christ. Too many "Christians", do not know about Billy Graham; and spend $$$'s, day after day, buying his books; and sending his crusade dollar upon dollar. Get some guts.... Tell things as they are.... God will bring the subject up, at rewards handout day. The same goes for your congregation buying books on "Angels"; aqnd "Spirit-Guides". Too many main-stream Christians are falling for this Satan placed false religion material / hype. Set your people straingt.

    Some call me an alarmist; I call myself a Bible Preaching Street Minister.

    BECAUSE OF SOME OF TH REPLIES TO THIS, I HAVE POSTED A REPLY MYSELF FURTHER DOWN THE LIST OF REPLIES.

    Pastor Don Kirk

    [ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: Pastor_Don_Kirk ]
     
  2. Pete Richert

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    Do you have any quotes or literature were Billy Graham has implied that he wants "ALL religions to modify their belief's, to accept one another's belief's and unify into one compramised world religion"?
     
  3. Pastor_Don_Kirk

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    He IS / was, one of the leaders of the World Council Of Churches.... THEIR MISSION STATEMENT (purpose) is to create a one-world church. He would NOT be (or not have been) one of their LEADERS, if he did not agree with that purpose; as the leaders job is to further the cause. That is where I get my opinion.
     
  4. Cskokido

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    I do not support nor agree with the WCC, but more than that I do not aggree with false statements.
    Billy Graham is not serving on the member board of the WCC.
    And to clarify the mission statement of the WCC. It reads:
    The mission:
    to pray for and pursue
    the visible unity of
    Christ's church - "in
    one faith and in one
    eucharistic fellowship,
    expressed in worship
    and common life in
    Christ, through witness
    and service to the
    world."

    This does not include non-christian religions.
    Just thought you might like to know. ;)
     
  5. Barnabas H.

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    I find it interesting (and I do not want to sound critical of those who criticize Dr. Graham) that the man they are accusing of has led to the Lord more people world-wide than anyone we know in the last few decades. While I would accept that Billy Graham's name was used to endorse books, artciles, magazines, churches, and oh yes even the World Council of Churches, I have yet to hear a statement attributed to the Brother which clearly puts him in a bad light. But even if he would be quilty in some areas, it is not my place to judge the man. That is the prerogative of God Almighty. And if we take the roll of the Acuser upon ourselves, we do no justice to God's words - for there can be no mistake about that, there is only one accuser of the brethren, Satan himself. We, on the other hand are asked to discern according to Biblical teachings, for we have been given the Spirit of discernment. We are to test, without judging. We are to separate ourselves from wordly entities, even though they call themselves a church. And it is within good Christian practice to provide a link to a credible article when we try to bring the attention of our brethren to something profound among believers, which does not build or edify the body of Christ. This is my humble opinion, and two cents worth. [​IMG]

    [ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: Barnabas ]
     
  6. Pastor_Don_Kirk

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    I should have gotten the exact literature information in-hand first before posting, and that is why I stated is/was, because I do not know if he is an official board member. I do know, that I have heard ministers speak about his belonging and working hard to help the WCC cause, which while as one of the replyers stated, may not state non-christian groups, but it does state, towards a UNIFIED belief. Anyone who follows (in the print media), knows the WCC, accepts (as I personally understand) ANY group wanting a Unified Belief; AND is willing to compramise, to obtain their goal.

    I am sorry, but compramise, is NOT part of my Independent Fundamental Bible believing belief. God does want us to compramise.

    I hope this clears up some of your thoughts on what I said. Billy Graham, even as a member of this organization (and his proclaiming to be Baptist), IS endorcing compramise, by being a member. Yes he has saved many; but saying (and he does) find a church you like and attend, is not the best remedy either. MANY churches today do not believe in the Diety of Jesus. Many do not preach from the Bible.

    I cannot support anyone who is willing to suggest that they attend any off-Christian church.

    If anyone DOES NOT support the WCC and it's cause, then how can anyone support one of it's most famous members; and workers towards their cause??????? That is my point!. Billy Graham, fits that statement!

    [ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: Pastor_Don_Kirk ]
     
  7. Barnabas H.

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pastor_Don_Kirk: Yes he has saved many; but saying (and he does) find a church you like and attend, is not the best remedy either.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Bro. Don, I am sure you didn’t want to say that Dr. Graham “saved many,” but that he has led many to Christ. And in reference to the second part of your statement, I have watched Billy Graham during his televised crusades, but never heard that he would send people to churches, which do not teach the Bible.

    Two years ago I listened to a radio call-in forum by an Independent Baptist group in the greater New York City and Westchester areas. This was exactly the subject of discussion and they were pretty much bashing Dr. Graham left and right. During the course of the event a lady caller asked them not to do that and then she gave her testimony. I thought it was sweet and to the point.

    This lady said that she heard Billy Graham 20 years ago on TV. Her heart was turned to the Lord and she accepted Jesus as her Lord and Savior right then and there. She was a member of a Roman Catholic Church, and she went back to her church with the good news. She stayed there for about two years before the Lord led her to a Baptist church where she started to grow in her Bible knowledge and the love of the Lord. This lady was pleading with the panelists by asking them not to judge Billy Graham. She acknowledged that she was saved as a result of his ministry. She acknowledged that she went back to the Catholic Church, but she also acknowledged that when a person is truly saved and the Lord opens his/her spiritual eyes then the milk does no longer satisfy that person, for that person desires solid food. In her search of the Scriptures she was led out of the RCC and into a Bible believing, teaching, and soulwinning church. PTL! [​IMG]

    [ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: Barnabas ]
     
  8. Cskokido

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    Bro. Kirk,

    I appreciate your intentions, but you need to examine your words carefully. Compromise and unity are not the same thing. Jesus Himself said in His prayer
    John 17:
    21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
    22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
    23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

    We can have unity as body of believers without compromising the gospel. If Rev. Billy Graham is preaching Christ and Him crucified, (which he is), then you are actually doing the opposite of what Christ prayed for.
    So I would be very careful how you cast judgement, lest that same come back to you.

    One other thing...I must repeat, Rev. Graham is NOT on the member board of the WCC.

    In His service
     
  9. redwhitenblue

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    expose him for what?? lol like your gonna do anything about what God has called him to do. touch not thine anointed folks...you may disagree with that but I believe he's an anointed man of God.

    karen
     
  10. Pastor Larry

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    Folks, this has been hashed out in other threads where documented proof has been given of Graham's denial or compromise of biblical doctrine. While it is wonderful that he has been used to bring many people to the Lord (though perhaps not as many as one might think), that does not excuse the issue. The issue is his fidelity and obedience to biblical truth and he has compromised on that many times. We, by nature, are pragmatic and pretend that its okay so long as people are getting saved. It is not okay. We are commanded to separate from false teachers and disobedient brethren. We should not let personalities or personal affinities get in the way of biblical thinking.
     
  11. mark

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    you are right this has all been discussed to death! UGGGGG, is this the baptist Board or the beat-up Billy Graham, who has lead thousands if not hundreds of thousands to Christ, Board. Get off it!
     
  12. Cskokido

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
    Folks, this has been hashed out in other threads where documented proof has been given of Graham's denial or compromise of biblical doctrine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I am fairly new to this board, so if you could give me a (reliable) cite to this claim, I would really appreciate it. Please do not give me a hearsay cite, but documented proof as you state.
     
  13. Pastor Larry

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mark:
    ... UGGGGG, is this the baptist Board or the beat-up Billy Graham, who has lead thousands if not hundreds of thousands to Christ, Board. Get off it!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Did you not read what I wrote above? The issue is not "how many thousands" ... the issue is "what doctrine." You cannot omit the last part. When a man is not true to biblical doctrine and obedience, he is disobedient and a false teacher. In the words of Paul, "from such turn away" "expose" "separate." It is a simple matter of biblical truth.

    Remember Saul in 1 Sam 15:23?? It is better to obey than to sacrifice. The good that may come from disobedience does not justify the disobedience.
     
  14. Pastor_Don_Kirk

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    It was not my intention to create conflict among us; but I see that I have. I am glad though, to see that others also are at least "suspect" of Mr. Graham. I am an Independent Fundamental Baptist; and at least here in Far Northern California, the I.F. Baptist ministers I've spoken to about the matter, agree with me. I also realize, that there are (in 2002) MANY different kinds of Baptist churches; and if I expressed an opinion on each of their doctorines, I'd again cause even bigger disagreements; and that is not the reason I'm a member of this site. I do though believe that we each should express our belief's and "discuss" them; so each can learn and possibly correct misunderstandings each might personally have on a topic.

    I tried to close this topic; but it said only administrators can do that. All I can say / ask, is that each person take the matter to Jesus in prayer; and seriously look at the "goals" of organization(s) he (and anyone) belongs to. I would truly like for Mr. Graham to see this topic; and soul-search; and then respond.... but that is highly unlikely.

    While some of us may disagree on the subject.... Thanks to each of you for your opinions. Pastor_Don_Kirk
     
  15. Wester

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    Pastor Don Kirk,

    It seems that all the information you have, that causes you to be critical of Billy Graham, is vague, hearsay, second hand information that may not be correct. If you want to discuss this issue, gets your ducks in a row first and present some references to solid, written information. You will be more credible that way, and make fewer mistakes. I don't pay much attention to people who pass on hearsay and gossip.
     
  16. Pete Richert

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    Pastor Kirk, where are you from in Far nothern California? I too am from far far nothern California, about as far as you can get (in the north east corner).

    Pete
     
  17. Pastor_Don_Kirk

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    Pastor Richert:
    I am in Redding. I'm possibly not quite as far North as you, but, as you may know, to most, anything North of Bakersfield, is Northern California; and I'm 400+ miles North of there.

    If you get KRCR TV-7 there, keep-watch of their evening news; as my street ministry helpers and I manage to get on (usually as the opening story) their news a couple of times a month. We have bailed-out the Roberts motel (one of the city's 16 low-income housing motels the city is trying to close). Probably "on", or during the week of Feb 11th, we will be holding a National Press Conference; and will be making further offerings of help, to the residents of ALL the city's low-income motels.

    By the way, at the bottom of each post on this site, it tells the city that each posting person says their from. Yours says Stanford, CA. I'm confused; as Stanford U, is near the bay area; and you say you're in the N.E. Corner.... Near Burney, or further N.E.?

    [ February 02, 2002: Message edited by: Pastor_Don_Kirk ]
     
  18. Mike McK

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wester:
    Pastor Don Kirk,

    It seems that all the information you have, that causes you to be critical of Billy Graham, is vague, hearsay, second hand information that may not be correct. If you want to discuss this issue, gets your ducks in a row first and present some references to solid, written information. You will be more credible that way, and make fewer mistakes. I don't pay much attention to people who pass on hearsay and gossip.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Agreed.

    MIke

    http://www.keylife.org
     
  19. Pastor Larry

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cskokido:


    I am fairly new to this board, so if you could give me a (reliable) cite to this claim, I would really appreciate it. Please do not give me a hearsay cite, but documented proof as you state.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    “Catholics have little reason to disagree with Dr. Graham as far as the theology of his crusade is concerned” (Christianity Today, Dec 12, 1973). Surely you know that Catholics do not believe in salvation by Jesus Christ alone. Graham has aligned himself very closely with the Catholic church which in and of itself should tell us everything we need to know about him

    In a Jan 1978 interview in McCall’s Magazine entitled “I Can’t Play God Any More,” the author said, “In recent years Graham has shown particular affection for Jews. Like most Christian fundamentalists, Graham once believed that Jews, too, were lost if they did not convert to Christianity. Today Graham is willing to leave that up to God. ‘God does the saving,’ Graham asserts. ‘I’m told to preach Christ as the only way to salvation. But it is God who is going to do the judging, not Billy Graham.”

    From the same article I believe (copied from BDM though I have it elsewhere in my files), Graham said, “I used to think that pagans in far-off countries were lost—were going to hell—if they did not have the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached to them. I no longer believe that. ... I believe there are other ways of recognizing the existence of God—through nature, for instance—and plenty of other opportunities, therefore, of saying yes to God.”

    From BDM’s website:

    In 1985, Graham affirmed his belief that those outside of Christ might be saved. Los Angeles reporter David Colker asked Graham: "What about people of other faiths who live good lives but don't profess a belief in Christ?" Graham replied, "I'm going to leave that to the Lord. He'll decide that" (Los Angeles Herald Examiner, 7/22/85).

    "I do believe that something happens at the baptism of an infant, particularly if the parents are Christians and teach their children Christian truths from childhood. We cannot fully understand the mysteries of God, but I believe a miracle can happen in these children so that they are regenerated, that is, made Christians through infant baptism. If you want to call that baptismal regeneration, that's all right with me" (10/10/61, The Lutheran Standard).

    I think that should be sufficient to show the depth of Graham’s rejection of the Gospel. There are many other citations if you are not yet convinced.

    This is not new. There are a lot of people who have closed minds over the years because of the staggering numbers that Graham has "reached." But that does not excuse Graham's disobedience. The old "touch not the Lord's anointed" line has no relevance. Even Nathan the prophet stood up to "the Lord's anointed" and denounced him for his disobedience. Do not get caught in the piety of it.
     
  20. dfd2

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    Here are a few excerpts from an article, that ive provided below, about how Billy Graham is in error:

    "Graham's surrender is unequivocally clear. Nov. 1967 he received an honorary degree from a Jesuit School, Belmont Abbey. Of that wicked system which has slain millions of God's people and is a system of spiritual darkness, Graham made this incredible statement, 'The Gospel that built this School and the Gospel that brings me here tonight is still the way to salvation'. Rome preaches another gospel God calls, 'anathema'. ('The Gastonia Gazette' Nov. 22nd 1967)."

    "Oct. 29th 1963 Dr. Graham admitted to the 'Daily Journal' of International Falls, Minn., that at a Graham Crusade in San Paulo Brazil the Roman Catholic Bishop stood beside him and blessed the converts as they came forward. Graham said that this illustrated 'something tremendous, an awakening of reform and revival within Christianity' was happening. ('New York Times' Nov. 9th, 1963)."


    "1977 at Inter-Varsity's Urbana, Graham showed his indifference to the infallible Holy Scriptures when he said, 'evangelicals should avoid divisiveness over such matters as Biblical inerrancy' (as reported by Evangelical 'Press Service'). The Bible's inerrancy is Christianity's foundation. If it is not inerrant, we have no authority.

    Billy Graham honoured the episcopal bishop Pike by asking him to lead in prayer at his San Francisco Crusade. Bishop Pike once said, 'I have abandoned ship on the doctrine of the Trinity' 'I have jettisoned the doctrine of the virgin birth of Jesus Christ'. ('Christian Beacon' Mar. 17th
    1955)."

    "Jan. 6th 1973. Advising a Roman Catholic couple disillusioned with their church, in the 'Sun Telegram' Billy Graham said, 'Don't pull out of the church. Stay in it ... help your church'. Graham has swallowed the seducing deceit of Vatican II which said concerning non-Romanists who were once called heretics and burned, 'These separated brethren are respected as baptized believers and gifted as they are by the Holy Spirit, their actions truly engender a life of grace'. Romanism used to anathematize Protestants, today it anathematizes them. Speaking on infant christening Graham said, 'I do believe that something happens at the baptism of an infant ... we cannot fully understand the mysteries of God, but I believe that a miracle can happen in these children so that they are regenerated, that is, made Christian, through infant baptism'. ('Lutheran Standard' 'Time' Oct. 27th 1961)."


    "Jan 1978 in an interview given to McCall's Magazine Graham said, 'I used to believe that pagans in far off countries were lost going to hell if they did not have the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached to them. I NO LONGER BELIEVE THAT. I believe that there are other ways of recognizing God through nature for instance and plenty of other ways of saying 'yes' to God'. Our blessed Lord Jesus said 'No man cometh unto the Father, but by Me' (John 14:6). Later, Billy's Minneapolis office issued a statement by Billy, 'On the whole I am pleased with the accuracy of the article (McCall's) ... a few statements unfortunately convey meanings which I never intended. This may be due to my own failure to make myself as plain as I should have'. He did not however, deny the statements or say that he was misquoted. In the same McCall's article Graham says, 'I've found that my beliefs are essentially the same as those of orthodox Roman Catholics ... we differ on some matters of later church tradition'."

    the document is found http://cephasministry.com/evangelists_billy_graham_facts_pamphlet.html
     

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