Patriotic Worship

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by NateT, Jul 5, 2004.

  1. NateT

    NateT
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    Just wanted to get people's thoughts on worship services that are on or around national holidays. Like yesterday (4th of July) or Memorial Day or Labor day etc. Most of the churches I've been to do the pledge to the Christian and American flag (incidently, I always find it interesting that they EXPECT us to not know the first one and put the words on the overhead) and then sing a few patriotic songs.

    The church we're going to (just moved here a couple months ago and still undecided) actually impressed me. They did a few of those yesterday, but the rest of the service was as normal.

    One thing I don't like, is sometimes I get the feeling that if a song has the word "God" in it, we can put it in our hymnals. Is "America The Beautiful" really a hymn? I like Patriotic songs, I'm just not sure if the church service is the place to sing them. I'm thankful to live here, and if that is the attitude (praising God for our freedom) then I'm fine with it. I just wonder how many people are actually thinking that, and how many are singing a song to a country [​IMG]

    So what are your thoughts? Do you like singing patriotic songs in worship service, hate it, or don't care?
     
  2. freeatlast

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    Nate,
    I persoanlly am offended if I am asked to do the pledge in church. By the way i do not make the pledge anytime. I feel that it goes against scripture as in making a pledge to something or someone other then God. My algence is to Him, not a pieace of cloth.
    Now someone might accuse me of being non american and thta is fine. I would fight for this country when ever the cause is one that honors the Lord.
    As to certain songs or messages I feel that the pastor is off base by changing the message to fit the day. You never see any such thing done in scripture and it should not be done in churhc either.
     
  3. GrannyGumbo

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    We don't sing a lot of the songs most sing, or do much what others do(recognize b'days, ss, etc). The "Christian" Flag is ecumenical...it's in ALL your 'churches'. The "American" Flag limits us to our own country, when the Holy Bible says to teach "all" nations. I wouldn't mind seeing a Believer's Banner(Confederate Flag) in assembly.

    There is a Baptist Flag, tho' I've never seen a real one, I did find it during a "search".
     
  4. Greg Linscott

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    How do you feel about church covenants? Most of the ones I have seen have wording along the lines of "enter(ing) into covenant with one another..."

    That's not exactly true. Many times in the Old and New Testament, the messages were addressed to a specific occassion- take Joshua's "Farewell Address" or Peter's Day of Penetcost Sermon.

    While our gospel is not an American gospel, it might be an appropriate occassion to remind believers of their duty as citizens to pray for their leaders and obey their authority- that is very scriptural.

    Just a thought.
     
  5. Daniel David

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    Granny, the confederate flag limits you to:

    1. [snipped]
    2. [snipped]
    3. losers
    4. [snipped]
    5. [snipped]
    6. [snipped]

    [ July 06, 2004, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]
     
  6. go2church

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    We did the pledge and sang the Star Spangled Banner, but that was all. If we had been in Mexico (or some where else) I guess I would have done the same
     
  7. USN2Pulpit

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I deduct from the wording (the word in quotation marks) in your post that I and almost all others hear do not attend a "real church." It makes me wonder why you associate with us wayward folk.

    And the believer's banner is the stars and bars? I've heard many things about the confederate flag, but never that. At least it helps us all to understand the direction your posts are coming from.
     
  8. TaterTot

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    I like patriotic music, too, but not in church. "America, America, ..." is sung to America. "My country 'tis of thee"... is sung to America. I dont believe it belongs in church. We didnt do pledges, but we did have God bless America and Mine Eyes Have seen the glory (choir special). All hymns were regular.
     
  9. LauraB

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    I am all for the "Patriotic Theme".
    Our Country was founded by Christians and there are Born Again, Bible Believing Christians today fighting for our country. Why exclude the church from it.
    We are always fighting against people who say religion and politics do not belong together, that is why they took religion out of our schools and some are offended by the Commandments and had to be taken down from the court houses etc...

    I am Proud to be an AMERICAN and a Christian. A patriotic theme in church is ok as long as the message glorify's Gods Word. As long as people are givin the "Good News". As long as God is working in hearts.

    If I lived in another country am certain I would feel the same there. But just because we have themes for around the holidays doesn't mean we will exclude preaching to ALL NATIONS.

    Our church sang Patriotic songs and the Choir sang Statue of Liberty. The bulletin had the History of the 4th of July and we had a copy of the Constitution at church for all to see. The message was that of a normal message.

    And for the person who commented about the word God and the Hymnals. I do not know what Hymnal your church uses, but generally it is Christians who are writing the songs to begin with. So no, just because the wrod God appears in the song doesn't constitute that it becomes a Hymn.

    I think we should all Salute Our Flag what ever flag that would be. I salute the American flag, not only for pride in my country but for pride in the Christians who had a great impact on our country and on Christianity. I Salute teh Christian flag also. I had to write the christian flag words on teh back of the Bulletin so that the people who didn't know it wouldn't feel awkward and left out. I think we all should know it.
    Church may be the only place we will ever salute the flag anymore. Kids in school ( at least here ) do not salute the American Flag.

    I like the themes. I certainly would not judge a church by it. I judge a church by the Gospel Message and sound doctrine. So what if they wave the american flag.
     
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I am not real big on mixing of worship and patriotism, but is also not something that offends me if it is not overdone.

    I do know that Christians all over the world are amazed at what seems to be a uniquely American phenomena.

    Kind of a boring flag if this is it [​IMG] -
     
  11. freeatlast

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    Greg wrote,
    "How do you feel about church covenants? Most of the ones I have seen have wording along the lines of "enter(ing) into covenant with one another..."

    Greg,
    It would really depend on the wording of the covenant.


    As to certain songs or messages I feel that the pastor is off base by changing the message to fit the day. You never see any such thing done in scripture and it should not be done in churhc either.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    That's not exactly true. Many times in the Old and New Testament, the messages were addressed to a specific occassion- take Joshua's "Farewell Address" or Peter's Day of Penetcost Sermon.

    Those messages were directed to god, not a country. I feel that we need to speak about the Lord not a nation or any other holiday we hold.

    While our gospel is not an American gospel, it might be an appropriate occassion to remind believers of their duty as citizens to pray for their leaders and obey their authority- that is very scriptural.

    Just a thought.

    I agree that we are to pray for our leaders and I do.
     
  12. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    I personally love patriotic messages and services. I think using the 4th of July or memorial day or veteran's day weekends as an opportunity to thank God for our country is a great. Many children today are not taught the religious heritage unique to America. These things are taken out of the schools and need to be taught. It can certainly be taught in a message that also presents the gospel. I once preached a 4th of July message from Joshua 4:20-24 about how the children of Israel were to teach their children the things God had done for them. In America today many times we fail to do that. Our children don't understand the great things God has done for our nation. They don't understand our unique Christian heritage. That is not saying that all of the founding fathers were Christians, but many were.

    The Jewish holy days were national as well as religious holidays and were used to teach children the truths of God. There are many verses which speak of this.

    Now freeatlast, you said
    I have to disagree with this. I think it is very Biblical to change the message to fit the day, providing that is where the spirit leads you. I think we have examples of this in the teaching of Jesus. He was always using examples around him, fisherman, shepherds, agriculture, storms, whatever came up Jesus was able to use it as an object lesson. Peter, Paul, the prophets of the Old Testament, they all used the events of their days to teach the truths of God. I don't see how using our holidays is any different.

    Now I know many churches that have carried this to far. They have political rallies instead of revivals and preach a salvation through our government instead of through Jesus Christ. They preach social justice and civil rights and have abandoned the true saving gospel. They pledge allegiance to the democratic or republican party but forget the kingdom of God. We see them on both ends of the political spectrum whether it is Pat Roberson and Jerry Falwell or Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. I think a preacher needs to be a preacher not a politician. I have something more important to talk about when I enter the pulpit then who wins the next election.
     
  13. Bob Farnaby

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    Sorry Daniel,but i find this kind of comment offensive. I'm sure most of the folk who followed this flag were normal people, some real devout christians. I'm not a big flag man myself, but they are important symbols for some and the abuse is totally unwarented.

    Regards
    Bob

    [quotation of offensive post by DD snipped]

    [ July 06, 2004, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]
     
  14. mozier

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    My church definitely went all-out for the 4th of July.

    We sang the Star-Spangled Banner, then we did the pledge of allegiance, led by veterans from WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and the Gulf war. Then we had patriotic songs, one right after the other. The choir had American flag trim on their robes, and a huge US flag hung overhead.

    And I loved every minute of it!

    Overall, very American and very Republican! [​IMG]
     
  15. Bob Farnaby

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    Nice, but was it a Christian worship service or a patriotic rally?

    Regards
    Bob
     
  16. mozier

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    Good question, Bob!

    I found it to be very patriotic, but with an emphasis on the fact that we are thanking God for such a great nation and for his blessings on it (even if we do not deserve it). So yes, I'd say it was a Christian worship of Thanksgiving to God for blessing the USA.

    Finally, that "very American and very Republican" line was my attempt at humor. I have become apolitical myself, but my church is about 99.99999999 percent devout Republican. If there are any Democrats in the church, they are meeting in the storage room.

    Personally, I've been thinking about putting a Green Party sticker on my car, just to see what happens.
     
  17. amixedupmom

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    umm wow. This is most intresting. You do REALIZE if people had not fought and DIED for YOU, that you wouldn't be able to sing america the beautiful, you wouldn't be allowed to sit here and compalin.

    There is a fine line between religion and state.

    If the four fathers could see this i'm sure they would have tears. To know that one despises thier ideals and refuses to speak the pledge in a church. To another who slams a flag.

    People we have lost our focus. THIS is what is wrong with us today .

    JMHO I apologize if I appear rude,

    Take Care

    Wendy
     
  18. GrannyGumbo

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    Sorry, Pulpit, if I threw you into a tizzie. I don't think of you as a "wayward folk", but sometimes I do wonder what you & a few others must think of me; but do I care? Nooo~it only matters to me what God thinks of me.

    I put the quotes around the word church, cuz some folks would say "church is not the building, etc"...blah, blah, blah. I guess I should've said "affiliations" or something like that & no, I do not recognize some sects as being a real church...but they too use the same "Christian" flag.

    The Southern Cross, aka Saint Andrew's, is a symbol of deep-rooted faith, courage, and liberty. An attack upon the Confederate flag(such as the one DD posted), is an attack upon the glorious Christian history of America. This flag is the only National flag on No.American soil that contains a Christian symbol. It is a Christian flag in the truest sense, that represents freedom from tyranny.

    America has become a nation of proud flag wavers. "God Bless America" has nearly become the new motto. Yet an innocent baby is murdered every 20 secs in the U.S. while the flag flies overhead. [And your income tax dollars support these murders.]

    Filthy sodomites parade in our streets publickly displaying their sin while waving the flag. These vile people have now been given equal rights under the same flag.

    Street preachers are being arrested for simply preaching truth while the flag flies overhead. My own 2 sons'n'law lost their jobs for exercising their rights on their own time & we live in one of the most patriotic towns in America. It is known as the "Stars and Stripes Capital of Louisiana", because they fly 350 flags proudly along Hwy 15.

    Homeland Security is stealing our freedom while these flags wave in the wind. The flag is suppose to represent a Republic, yet it flies over a socialistic democracy. Does the murdered baby enjoy freedom? Are we free to allow such sin in the open streets, which will bring judgment of God? Did God make us free so that we could curse Him in the streets? Will God not bring righteous judgment for the nation's sin?

    I love this country for what it used to stand for. I was blessed enough to be borne here & in the South and be borne a girl. I was blessed enough to be saved at an early age & to retain the assurance of that salvation.

    This was once a Christian nation founded upon the God of the King James Bible. My daddy was a career Army man. It sickened him to see how it changed over the years. I will fight to defend my home & I wear a kicking shoe at all times.

    Yes, I love being a Patriot & it stirs me to hear certain songs. But the Church is not the place for a lot of things. Maybe the Movies-but I don't go to such. Sorry this is so long & sorry I took away from the subject. So beat me with a wet noodle or just go bite a wall.
     
  19. Dr. Bob

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    On a national holiday I do not find any offense with including a patriotic song of God's blessing or grace on a people's heritage.

    But the church and message of the cross transcends any nationality, flag or pledge. I will not allow "politics" to encroach on a service or message.

    BTW, we never endorse a candidate, but always point out biblical principles (pro-life for instance) and the people who espouse such. An informed electorate is a blessing to any nation!
     
  20. amixedupmom

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    GO Granny
     

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