Paul Marshall Johnson was murdered today

jm said:

 

I felt so sorry for his wife this morning when she was pleading with them to let him go.
All these people understand is killing. They will never stop until they have killed all non-Muslims in the world or we kill all of them. They have no honor and no humanity.

 

The more literal interpretation of the Koran is that infidels should convert or die. Jihad is similar in Islam to missions or evangelism in Christianity. The RCC once took evangelism to this extreme. Bible believers don't.

The difference between Christian fundamentalists and Islamic fundamentalists that the secular world always ignores is that when we strictly follow our scriptures violence is never an acceptable tool for conversion. When the Muslim follows his scripture, violence is always a viable tool for evangelism (by terrorism).

We are told that moderate Muslims make up the vast majority and don't approve of the violence. But I would like to know where those voices are... as a matter of fact, I want to know why these supposed peace loving moderates aren't standing up against the terrorists themselves.

My inclination is that hatred for Christians and Jews runs so deep in Islam that even those who personally wouldn't commit violence in the name of religion, they none the less are sympathetic and kindred to those who do.

As terrible as the terrorists' atrocities have been, I am even more offended by the open celebrations that are tolerated. The liberal press quickly suppressed the images but I remember the jubilant celebrations among palestinian arabs after 9/11. The image of giddy young Arabs celebrating the 4 mutilated Americans in Fallujah is etched in my memory.

We Americans, and the west in general, are in denial. This war is about Islam. It is a war by Islam on those they consider infidels. The sooner we dispel these delusions that their worldview is similar to ours, the sooner we will become effective in fighting them.

The west frequently condemns Israel's response to Islamic terrorism. But the fact is that they understand the mindset and how to react against it much better than we do.

 

I have been asking that same question since the first time I heard someone defend the "peace loving" muslims.

Because they don't seem to have a big objection to the end result (dead infidels).

 

This is being discussed here

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/32/1913.html

in the News/Current Events Forum

 

This is exactly what will happen if we don't support Bush this election year. A vote for Peroutka is a vote for backing down from the terrorists, showing weakness, for giving worldwide terrorism another victory as they had in Spain. The only person who will stay the course and not back down from the terrorists is George W. Bush.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Yep, I've been saying this since 9/11.

And Joseph, you must be kidding. Bush says allah is the same as the god he worships. It must be pointed out that the Bush family has had many longstanding business ties with the House of Saud. The President has engaged us in military battles in Iraq and Afghanistan, BUT he has NOT taken a hard line with terrorism. If he had, our immigration laws would be enforced and our borders controlled adequately. And we would be buying our oil from somewhere other than OPEC.

Every time I pump gas, I feel like I'm helping to behead Americans, but my government gives me no alternatives other than staying home. A HARD LINE against terrorism would include buying our oil elsewhere, helping Israel drill for oil, or even using our own oil from Alaska rather than selling it to Japan.

Nope, the House of Saud is the largest resource for Islamic terrorists in the world, both from their madrassas which churn out generations of Wahabi fundamentalists, and the funds for al-Qaeda. GW Bush has NOT backed down from terrorists in the way you suggest, but Kerry would be utterly spineless.

 

right on Joseph

 

Yep, I've been saying this since 9/11.

And Joseph, you must be kidding. Bush says allah is the same as the god he worships. It must be pointed out that the Bush family has had many longstanding business ties with the House of Saud. The President has engaged us in military battles in Iraq and Afghanistan, BUT he has NOT taken a hard line with terrorism. If he had, our immigration laws would be enforced and our borders controlled adequately. And we would be buying our oil from somewhere other than OPEC.</font>[/QUOTE]LE,

Not all Muslim are terrorists and not all Muslims hate Jews and Christians / America. Bush has gone a lot further than any other president before him to actually fight terrorism and bring it to them. He has done more to bring peace in the region than any other president. It may not be popular, but he is doing the right thing and if you don't vote for Bush, then you are voting for the alternative (IMO), which is another victory for worldwide terrorism as was seen in Spain.

Every time I pump gas, I feel like I'm helping to behead Americans, but my government gives me no alternatives other than staying home.[/QUOTE]

Actually, you could ride a bike. Or, you could even support the president when he tried to open of the pipelines in America. But, the liberal environmentalists seemed to be more vocal and give more support to stopping him from doing so. Your government is not forcing you to buy gas. There are alternatives out there. You simply choose not to take them. Don't turn to government to solve every problem you have. There are some things we, as Americans, could fix ourselves if we really wanted to.

A HARD LINE against terrorism would include buying our oil elsewhere, helping Israel drill for oil, or even using our own oil from Alaska rather than selling it to Japan.[/QUOTE]

1. We do. Saudi Arabia isn't the only country in the world with oil.
2. We provide them with financial aid, which, BTW, would also go away if Peroutka were by some fluke elected president.
3. Bush certainly tried that. Unfortunately, the environmentalist wackos were more vocal than conservatives were and he wasn't able to get it through. If Bush were prince of the planet and could do anything he wanted without answering to anyone or having to worry about votes in Congress, etc...I am sure he would have done several things already that would have made things better. However, in the real world, we live in a representative democracy and those things are not easily done with the wave of his magic wand as the fine folks in the Peroutka camp would have you believe.

Nope, the House of Saud is the largest resource for Islamic terrorists in the world, both from their madrassas which churn out generations of Wahabi fundamentalists, and the funds for al-Qaeda. GW Bush has NOT backed down from terrorists in the way you suggest, but Kerry would be utterly spineless. [/QUOTE]

You are right. GW has not backed down from the terrorists. He has, instead, taken the fight to them and is conquering them. Even Al Zawri's latest letters to the terrorists shows traces of the beginning of the end. If America will stand strong and unite around a president who is willing to stand up against them and not waver, they will be defeated. But, if we tuck tail and run like cowards, it won't be long before we stop wondering what life in Jerusalem must be like. We will know first hand.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Joseph said:

Joseph, I'd like to read this letter. Is it online ?

 

That's fine. Do you have any suggestions on how to get a week's worth of groceries home on my bike? Or, how would I take my elderly mother who can't walk to the doctor? C'mon, Joseph, let's bring this discussion into reality. You sound like Ralph Nader.

I don't recall him doing that. All I recall him doing was wanting to drill in ANWAR. But we already have oil flowing from Alaska, and that was the big political hype (before you were born), that once the Alaskan pipeline was installed, the oil would be coming to America. Instead, it is going to Japan.

No, they aren't. But they are forcing Americans to buy gas from OPEC. That was my point.

Besides the impracticality of riding a bike, what would those be?

Do you not know how many oil and gas wells in the US are capped? The issue isn't NOT having enough gas and oil; the issue IS from where the oil and gas are obtained. It doesn't have to be from OPEC.

I don't. But the fact of life is, it is the government who is in charge of foreign trade and how our tax dollars are spent. It is out of my personal hands and your personal hands since I don't have an oil well and refinery in my back yard and neither, probably do you. My point is that they are in collusion with Exxon and the rest, rather than what is doing what is best for their constituents and their country. Again, the issue isn't NOT having enough gas and oil; the issue IS from where the oil and gas are obtained. It doesn't have to be from OPEC. You missed my point.

As to your other comments:

Not all muslims are terrorists, but all muslims are potential terrorists. Again, I think you missed my point.

 

We are going to know it anyway. The terrorists already live among us. They will not be deported under any administration including this one, and are still coming by the thousands through our unprotected borders. The going rate is $30,000 a pop for a mid-Easterner to be taken through our unprotected southern border by the smugglers. That was part of the point of my original post.

Here's the map:

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/32/1915.html

 

Not all muslims are terrorists, but all muslims are potential terrorists. Again, I think you missed my point. </font>[/QUOTE]That is not a reasonable argument and you know it. Not all Muslims are potential terrorists. That is just about as ludicrous as saying all Christians are potential Klan members, Nazis, or Crusaders. The majority of people in Iraq are happy to have us there and look forward to the day when the terrorists are gone. They are even starting to take ownership of their own fate and standing up and fighting the terrorists alongside the American soldiers.

I understand that there are still terrorists there, and that they have a lot of them there. But they will be defeated if we will stand strong together. Let's not play their game by dividing ourselves while they conquer.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Umm maybe they are but, no one is listening. What I am trying to say is I hardly (well I haven't yet) see a Muslim holy man ( I can't think of what they are called) interviewed on Television. Maybe, that is because if they were, the would be nothing to report. OR, they are afraid of speaking up. Not everyone enjoys our freedom of speech, and press. I'm just wondering why those in this counrty do not speak up and be heard. This situation is a scare tatic of trying to get people out of Iraq. The thing is, they are not attacking our military they, are attacking our citizens. They know that we understand when a solider signs up for duty there is that possiblity of getting killed. But, these citizens have gone over there to try and help rebuild. It's just like bitting the hand that feeds you. The problem with that is, when you do that your likely to get slapped by the other hand. I pray for our troops, more over I pray for the people doing this that they would wake up and see the light. It's a pity they don't. So many lives could be saved

 

To be a good muslim means that one believes the quran. Follow the historical trail: when muslims are a minority in non-muslim countries, the majority of muslims are peaceful. When muslims become a sizeable number, the country begins to change. Look at France. Look at countries in Africa - Sudan, Sierra Leone, many others. Once they become the majority, they enforce Shariah law. They drive out or kill the minority non-muslims and even some muslims who waver in the middle - it's either join the jihad or be killed. Keep on believing what you want to believe, Joseph, but remember my point as you study world history and islam. Ever study the history of Afghanistan? I read that years ago there used to be a Baptist church in Afghanistan. How long do you think the newly created Baptist church will stand in Iraq once the country is officially handed over to Iraq and their muslim government? Christians are already fleeing the country. This country belonged to the Assyrian Christians long before the Arabs infiltrated and took over with their islam. I spit on allah.

Joseph, Americans are already divided as a nation. You believe what you believe about islam and I believe what I believe about islam. The majority of Americans believe as you do and as President Bush believes and as I used to believe before I started studying about it. And we as a nation are ripe for the picking for terrorists within our own borders.

I invite you to check this out:

http://www.vicmord.com/islamicthreat.htm

And I invite you to check this out:

Source: http://www.meforum.org/article/603

Why do you suppose it is that the Saudis have killed the terrorists (which I don't believe and which the terrorist web site says didn't happen), but don't have Paul Johnson's body? I don't believe the Saudi government. I just don't. How many 09/11 hijackers came from Saudi? Where did bin Laden come from? Who of his 54 Saudi brothers and sisters is NOT funding him? All 54? Half? 50? Where do they get their money? Don't you realize that American corporations (not just oil) are sleeping with the enemy? One can only wonder what would happen if the US and the West DID take an unpolitically correct stance against all of this? Do you honestly believe in your heart of hearts there will not be another attack on America? Do you honestly believe the goal isn't to cripple America within her own borders? Do you honestly believe the war in Iraq is the road to peace in the Middle East?

Don't you know the House of Saud is the largest funder of Islamic terrorism in the world? Don't you know what they teach in madrassas in Saudi? Don't you know what they teach in madrassas in the US? It isn't peace.

BTW, poor Mr. Johnson was thinking of converting to islam. Nick Berg carried a quran around with him. Daniel Pearl believed he could reason with terrorists. Why do you think we don't have bin Laden? He's a hero over there. The majority of Saudis think of him as a national hero. So do the Pakistanis. So do the Palestinians. No one has polled the Iraqis. No one has polled the American muslims either, to the best of my knowledge. Maybe Zogby would be up to it, but I doubt it. The data would no doubt shed a bad light on the peaceful religion they all want us to believe it is. It isn't.

 

LE,

There are pictures of the dead terrorists who were killed by the Saudis on FoxNews Website right now? Go take a look. Don't believe it if you don't want to, but there it is.

As far as France goes, I would not hold them up as a sterling example of peaceful Muslim moderates in the minority. Europe is being over-run with Muslim Extremists and have become more anti-semitic than they have been since WW2. There are plenty of people in Iraq who want freedom and want to be rid of the terrorists. The media doesn't report this because it doesn't reflect bad on America and Bush.

Also, you might want to be careful with your over generalizations about Islam and the Muslim people in general. Many of the same generalizations could be made against Christians and the Bible (especially the OT).

I don't want to negotiate with the terrorists. I want to defeat them. But, recognizing that not all Muslims are terrorists is not negotiating with terrorists.

Joseph Botwinick

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,123145,00.html

 

I am with Lady Eagle on this issue,JB. I do not trust ALL Muslims whether they style themselves moderate, lukewarm, cold, or fanatic. My distrust is based on their religion, not their persons. They may be good guys, good neighbors, maybe even good friends, but, they're Muslims, period. When push comes to shove, they will show their true colors. That's what their religion is all about: world domination, join-us-or-be-regarded-infidel-and-treated-as-such, there is no god but allah ( ),etc., etc. Theirs is a religion bred and spread with violence.

Just like a true Christian will show his true colors when push comes to shove. We may see him going around with the wrong crowd now, doing the wrong things now, saying the wrong things now, but, when things come to a head, his true nature within him, his upbringing, his Christian training, those things he learned as a child of God, will always come out and up.