Pentecostal Baptists.

It is funny that people run with the excesses and try to use that to disuade people from God.

The name it and claim it bunch is like a lot of things in life. It comes and it goes. Why let it bother you? People are led into false doctrine all the time and saying God is powerless and trying to say the Gifts are dead because of certain groups excesses is like throwing out the baby with the bath water.

The problem with most Baptists understanding tongues etc is they don't use the Isaiah precept of here a little and there a little. They read where Paul spoke about interpretation of tongues and think that all tongues have to be interpreted but they ignore the scripture where Paul said he prayed in tongues, then he prayed with understanding and he sang in tongues then he sang with understanding. Come on guys. YOu will never destroy the work of God with your words. You will never slow down the move of God with your criticism or your doubt. People are not leaving spirit filled churches and coming back to main line churches. If one of them are to excessive they find another. People are not going to have their worship stifled anymore.

Also let me clairify something. Spirit filled churches are not all bouncy and fast music all the time. THey sing slow songs and people worship. I would rather go to a church where the people weep when the Spirit moves then sit in a church where the people have no emotions at all.

There has been so many threads about people coming forward who don't really have a relationship with Jesus. If they would stop and realize one thing Souls come to Christ when intecessory prayer is offered.

There is always false things in Christianity but I am not going to allow the false to cloud my life and my judgement.

 

To answer Heidi, the answer is I don't know, because I only normally speak only English as a mother tongue. How do I know it's from God? Only God can give you a peace about something, Satan never gives peace, besides I know I belong to the Lord! When I'm praying and my language "changes gears" I notice that I'm not loud, I'm close to being up to a loud whisper, and it's usually my spirit is at a loss of words in English and thats when I "shift gears" in my language. Only God knows what is being said, and I trust that He deals with it! For He alone is worthy to be praised! Not everytime I pray does this happen, I've went a few months between boughts of prayng in tongues.

[ January 02, 2003, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: Jim Ellis ]

 

Because God gave more than enough warnings throughout His Word about teachers and their teachings. It seems He is bothered (to say the least) about false teachings.

Take Hymenaeus and Philetus as example (2 Tim 2:15-18) Paul wrote to Timothy that the false teachings of this pair spread like gangrene. Later in the same letter he gives this warning "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." (2 Timothy 4:3 NIV) Oh boy is this one 'fulfilled in our hearing' these days....

I have read a some from those who say tounges and related gifts ceased (eg see arguments HERE and/or HERE) As I have yet to see (or even hear rumours of) an interpreter or any other Biblical requirements being met, I must say the evidence points to this interpretation as correct...oh...hahahaha I guess I just saw my first interpreter huh?

Interesting. I think the problem is with tongues/slain/etc proponents ignoring any Scripture that does not conform with their "experience". What part of "and someone must interpret" means that it is ok if no one interprets?

And as it is "a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers", why aren't there groups going into the all night pubs speaking it, or becoming cabbies and chatting to their passengers in it...I can guarantee "Betty Botter bought some bitter butter.." would go down very well on some fares...

True, IF it's God. However I do wonder who is doing the working/moving on this one.

If by "spirit filled churches" there you mean "Yabba-dabba-do" places, I went to them for a few years. I have since repented

If one is excessive, you can bet the next one down the block will get even worse in a short period of time so they can claim a greater "annointing" than the first.

A lot don't worship as much as they like to think they do. They call singing a hour on Sunday mornings and nights "worship", and forget that worship is a 24/7 thing.

Now that depends on wether you have the genuine article or not hmmm?

THAT I can say "AMEN!" to

Pete

 

I was a pentacostal until about three years ago. I've repented of my babbling and all that other nonsense I was involved in, been rebaptized, and now thankfully part of a great Independent Baptist Church, serving God as a Tentmaker missionary in Korea. Oh, and since my coming out of pentacost I no longer battle depression. Bless His holy name!

 

I think that is developing Cessationist theology on experiance which Cessationist theology is experianced based "I haven't seen it, so it must not be true". I do not agree with the modern day Charismatic movement but Cessationist theology is based up on a incorrect interpretation of 1 Cor. 13 and a strange interpretation of Hebrews 1. Sign Gifts and wonders were very prominent among even the Church Fathers up until the 5th century. The burden of proof is upon the Cessationists to provide solid Biblical evidence that miracles and signs were to cease. Usually it is a flimsy interpreatation of 1 Cor. 13 or Hebrews 1 that has absolutely nothing to do with the subject. Cessationist theology is the opposite extreme of much of the modern day Charismatic/Pentecostal theology.

 

Do you have any books or websites that might give me more light on this?From the 5th century on, is there any evidence of these gifts?I've never seen anyone even talk in tongues.Someone in my family says they do, though.

Tentmaker- could you please tell me what led you to leave this movement?

Thanks,

heidi

 

Hi heidi,

I cannot think of the book off hand though I will get back to you on it but there is evidence in some quotes of the ante Nicene fathers. A word of caution, just because someone like me believes the sign gifts still take place does not mean I endorse the Charismatic movement. Even the late Fundamentalist John R. Rice who attacked the modern tongues movement was not a cessationist and he criticized Cessationism as unbiblical as did the great Reformed pastor Dr. Martin Llyod -Jones. I find that both the Charismatic movement and Cessationists go to opposite extremes of the spectrum.

[ January 09, 2003, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Kiffin ]

 

Why does anyone think that raising your hand in praise is "BAD"? They did it in the OT.

 

In my Baptist church there is a whole lot of shouting also. In many I have visited it is not unusual to hear someone shout. Pentacostals do not have the monopoly on shouting

Some of you may ask, "what is shouting"? I believe it is when you get so happy in the spirit you have to let it out and some do so by letting out a loud shout.
My dear old aunt shouts at almost every meeting she attends.

Susan

 

Tentmaker- could you please tell me what led you to leave this movement?

heidi[/QB][/QUOTE]
"He (the Holy Spirit) will guide you into all truth" Jn 16:13. It took some time, and I struggled for awhile. But through His leading and the Word i came to see the truth. Likewise I came into the knowledge of eternal security (even while in pentacost).

 

Kiffin, hmmmmm I thought the burden of proof would have been on "tounges" proponents to show adherence to the Biblical guidlines already there?

I did not say I was cessationist. I think the view presented by those sites does hold more water than the "yabba-dabba-do"ists.

Pete

 

Do you have any books or websites that might give me more light on this?From the 5th century on, is there any evidence of these gifts?I've never seen anyone even talk in tongues.Someone in my family says they do, though.

Tentmaker- could you please tell me what led you to leave this movement?

I would like to recommend four books if you are really interested .
1. 2000 Years of charismatic Christianity by Eddie L. Hyatt Hyatt Press can find on Amazon.com or in local bookstores.
2. The Century of The Holy Spirit by Vinson Synan Thomas Nelson Publishers Also available through Amazon or your local bookstore.
3. Awakened By The Spirt by Dr. Ron Phillips Thomas Nelson Publishers
heidi</font>[/QUOTE]4. The Spirit Comes (as part of the package)
by John Leach Harper Collins Publishing/Zondervan

 

atestring, please check your private messages. I sent you one on January 1st. Thanks. Have a nice day.

 

Titus2_1

I'll bet you watch the Flintstones.

atestring-Thanks for the booklist.

Some in my family strongly believe in this movement.

I have never seen any of these things and I think that if God thought I needed to talk in tongues he would have made me talk in tongues.I'm interested in this because someone in my family says they speak in tongues.I would rather the Lord just grew fruit in my life.

heidi

 

H.R.B., yeah, I used to watch it going back a bit

I have been known to call "tonguesians" "Yamahakawaskaihondaites" too. I don't know why, I don't ride a bike

Pete

 

If you would allow me... Almost all pentecostal denominations refer back to the upper room experience in Acts 2 as their basis for speaking in tongues, but a closer look at the conditions in the upper room will show that the tongues movement in these churches isn't scriptural for today.
THINGS ABSENT IN TODAY'S CHURCH:
1. all with one accord- Acts 2;1
2. sound like a mighty rushing wind- 2:2
3. tongues of cloven fire- 2:3
4. not only did the disciples speak with other tongues(2:4), but all the other nations present in Jerusalem understood them.(2:8) This would indicate that the languages spoken were not unknown, but native to those people(2:8).
Hope this helps.

 

Pardon my ignorance but I don't know how to check for a private message.
You have a nice day also

 

Not a problem. Just look at the top of the page, to the right. You will find a group: my profile | register | search | faq | forum home. Click on my profile. This and any other private messages you may have will come up on the page. You will need to logged in when performing this function.

 

Speaking in tongues in the New Testament is not limited to Acts 2. Look ater Acts 10 and Acts 19 and a strong possivbility that tongues were present in Acts 8( THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT SIMON SAW WHEN PEOPLE WERE BEING FILLED WITH THE HOly Spirit) and ACts 9:17( we do not know if Saul Spoke with Tongues at this time but according to ICorinthians he did speak in Tongues)
These are cases in the book of Acts which did not include a mighty rushing wind, cloven tongues of fire or a large crowd. Therefore it is biblical to speak in tongues without seeing tongues of fire or to hear a mighty rushing wind or have a galthering of people from all over the world.

On the issue of being in one accord I believe that if God's people were in one accord more often, great things would happen. Any time there is discord and unbelief it stops an outpouring of the Holy Spirit.
This may explain why there is an outpouring of the Holy Spirit in other coutries beside the US.

 

It is also Biblical for two or three at the most to speak, one at a time, and there must be an interpreter. Not forgetting the rest of criteria in 1 Corinthians 14.

Problem is Accords are such small cars...Oh I'm sorry I know, I know, that gag has been done to death...

But seriously, God's people would be a lot closer to being in one accord if they were in accord with His Word.

Pete