I don't believe the following statement is true, but, I have been asking people's thoughts on this for nearly 30 years and I am yet to get a satistactory reply. Here is the statement. Given their perceived choices, a person will ALWAYS choose that which will gain the most pleasure or will avoid the most pain. The key to understanding this statement is, as the title to this thread suggests, in the phrase "perceived choices". It is whatever this person THINKS his choices are and the effect he THINKS those choices will have on HIM. I am asking for exceptions to this statement, thus, proving it to be false. Good luck, it is not as easy as it sounds. I posted it in this forum because it relates directly to total depravity.