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Perfect Transation/Copy

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by jbh28, Apr 30, 2010.

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  1. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    But where was this "one inerrant translation" before the KJV? If it is preserved, we would have one then too. Or was the Bible not preserved before the KJV. You see, you cannot answer that because there wasn't one, yet the Bible was still preserved Just as God said. He NEVER said it would be in one translation.

    Oh, and we don't use the Westcott and Hort text today. It is similar, but there are many differences. The NA27 and the USB4 are not just copies of the WH text.
     
    #21 jbh28, May 1, 2010
  2. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    I love it when you posit your opinion as fact.

    "Vanilla ice cream is the best...do some study" :laugh:

    Winman, I forget....I know you reject any translation based on WH and the like. So you'd accept the NKJV since it's based on the mss underlying the KJV?
     
    #22 TomVols, May 1, 2010
  3. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    And just in case it gets mentioned, the NKJV is based on the TR. I have seen people (like Gail Riplinger) say there are 1200 differences but can't seem to name even one.

    oh, chocolate chip cookie doe is the best....do some study :laugh:
     
    #23 jbh28, May 1, 2010
  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    This one throws me. I have asked over and over for one instance where the NKJV chooses an alternate rendering that the KJV does not choose. So far no one has pointed out a single instance.
     
    #24 NaasPreacher (C4K), May 2, 2010
  5. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    KJV
    Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

    NKJV
    Mat 7:14 Because narrow [is] the gate and difficult [is] the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.



    KJV
    2 Corinthians 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

    NKJV
    2Cr 2:17 For we are not, as so many, peddling the word of God; but as of sincerity, but as from God, we speak in the sight of God in Christ. speak we in Christ.


    There's more, but I have to go to church. :)
     
    #25 Amy.G, May 2, 2010
  6. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Those are differences of translation, not of the underlying Greek text, which is the same.
     
    #26 rsr, May 2, 2010
  7. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    What rsr said. No one claimed the NKJV translated every word the same way that the KJV did, only which text did they choose. I am still looking for a time then the NKJV chose a critical text rendering over a TR rendering when the KJV did not do the same.
     
    #27 NaasPreacher (C4K), May 2, 2010
  8. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    That sure looks like an alternate rendering to me!

    I think you're side stepping.
     
    #28 Baptist4life, May 2, 2010
  9. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    Neither of these are textual differences. Both are translational differences. 2 Corinthians is better in the NKJV as the term means to peddle, typically in a negative connotation.

    Matthew 7 passage, the term means "afflict, narrow, throng, suffer tribulation, trouble, difficult."

    Neither passage you gave is different in the Greek.
     
    #29 jbh28, May 2, 2010
  10. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    He was speaking of textual not translational differences. He was speaking of the rendering of the Greek text. Like TR vs CT. Obviously, there are differences between the KJV and the NKJV. But I have yet to see one place where the NKJV went away from the TR.
     
    #30 jbh28, May 2, 2010
  11. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Okay - I guess I need to simplify my question. I assumed that we all understood that 'rendering' referred to the textual basis for translation, not the translation itself. Sorry about that.


    Can anyone show me any case where the NKJV team chose to use the 'critical text' as the basis for translation instead of the TR where the KJV team did not do the same?
     
    #31 NaasPreacher (C4K), May 2, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2010
  12. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    No apology necessary. Seems like obfuscation is alive and well when people don't know or can't give answers.
     
    #32 TomVols, May 2, 2010
  13. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    No sidestepping. There are some textual variants at Matthew 7:14, but (1) only dealing with a transition word or (2) omitting "gate," which hardly any MV follows.

    On the second verse, that they are using the same underlying text is proved by the Geneva, which renders it as "making merchandise of the word of God."

    Both Gill and Clarke agree that the Greek refers to those who would adulterate for gain. Thus both renderings make sense, although perhaps this is one of those occasions where brevity should give way to amplification to provide the entirety of the thought.
     
    #33 rsr, May 2, 2010
  14. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    The following information is gleaned from Philip Comfort's New Testament Text And Translation Commentary.

    The Nestle-Aland (26th and 27th editions) and The United Bible Societies' Greek New Tesament (3rd and 4th corrected editions) (NU)

    Westcott and Hort,The New Testament in the Original Greek (WH)

    Matthew 5:47b

    The KJV sides with WH and NU : Don't the Gentiles do the same?

    The NKV goes with a variant/TR : Don't the tax-collectors do the same?

    Mark 3:19

    WH NU :Judas Iscariot : all translations including the KJV and NKJ.

    Variant/TR : Judas of Kerioth : no translations

    Mark 3:22

    Neither the KJV nor the NKJ go with the TR and NU. :Beelzebul
    The NKJ goes along with Variant1/WH :Beezebul
    In Variant 2 :The KJV NIV and NEB have :Beezebub

    Mark 8:7

    WH NU : having blessed them : KJV and NKJ

    Variant 2/TR : having blessed :no translation

    Luke 1:35

    TR WH NU : the one being born: NKJ
    Variant : the one being born of you : KJV

    These examples will have to do for now. More later.
     
    #34 Rippon, May 2, 2010
  15. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. As I thought I had read there are times when the KJV uses a variant that the NKJV uses the TR. I would be interested if there are any times when the NKJV is less true to the TR than the KJV.
     
    #35 NaasPreacher (C4K), May 3, 2010
  16. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland Active Member

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    Your information appears to be wrong. The KJV I'm looking at has "publicans," which is simply another way of saying "tax-collectors." The KJV and NKJV seem to be parallel here.


    Again, it appears you either need to check your sources or check your spelling. Both the KJV I'm looking at and the NKJV have "Beelzebub," which is merely a transliteration of the Vulgate's "Beelzebub."


    This is a legitimate example. The 1550 edition of Stephanus, the "textus receptus," the Byzantine consensus and most early Greek manuscripts do not have "of you," but the two words were included in one of the early great uncials ("C," Ephraemi rescriptus, ca. 400), the Complutensian Polyglot, Erasmus' edition, the 3rd, 4th, and 5th editions of Beza, etc., as well as in several versions and many early fathers. The NKJV went with Stephanus (and others), the KJV translators with Erasmus (and others).

    Jonathan C. Borland
     
    #36 jonathan.borland, May 3, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2010
  17. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    No, I do not like the NKJV regardless if it is based on the TR. It may be, but more often than not is translated like the MVs which I believe affects doctrine in many verses.

    Matthew 7:14 is a good example:

    KJV-

    Matt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

    NKJV-

    Matt 7:14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

    Being saved is not difficult, one must simply trust on Jesus for salvation. But it is narrow, a man can only come to the Father by Jesus Christ.

    The NKJV is translated like many of the MVs and gives a different understanding than the KJV in this verse.
     
    #37 Winman, May 3, 2010
  18. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    Purely subjective opinion.
     
    #38 Mexdeaf, May 3, 2010
  19. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    No, Winman makes an excellent point.
     
    #39 Baptist4life, May 3, 2010
  20. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    You are right.Comfort made an error there.And consequently I did also.



    It was my faulty spelling. The KJV has Beelzebub for Mark 3:22. I didn't and don't have a copy of the NKJ for confirmation of that version.
     
    #40 Rippon, May 3, 2010
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