Permission to use a Bible?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by av1611jim, Mar 26, 2005.

  1. av1611jim

    av1611jim
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    Gentlemen;
    What is this all about?
    I found this on a web site today.

    SPECIAL THANKS TO
    The American Bible Society for permission to use both the Contemporary English Version and the Good New Translation — Second Edition;

    Tyndale House Publishers for permission to use both the audio and text of the Holy Bible: New Living Translation;

    The Lockman Foundation for permission to use both the audio and text of the New American Standard Bible;

    The ISV Foundation for permission to use the International Standard Version;

    NavPress for permission to use THE MESSAGE: The Bible in Contemporary Language;

    Messianic Jewish Publishers for permission to use the Complete Jewish Bible and The Voice of the Lord;

    Broadman & Holman Publishers for permission to use the Holman Christian Standard Bible®;

    National Council of the Churches of Christ in the U.S.A. for permission to use the Revised Standard Version and New Revised Standard Version Bibles;

    Thomas Nelson Publishers for permission to use both the New King James Version of the Holy Bible and the New Century Version;

    Christian Literature International for permission to use the New Life Bible version;

    World Bible Translation Center for permission to use the Easy-To-Read Version of the Holy Bible;


    International Bible Society for permission to use the The Holy Bible, New International Version®.

    The pros and cons to this don't concern me. Use any Bible version you want to. That is between you and God.
    What bothers me is the fact that, evidently, one must get permission to use a Bible? Something is VERY wrong with that idea.

    Thoughts?
    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  2. rsr

    rsr
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    Without knowing the site, it's hard to respond. Literary works are copyrighted, a concession to modern capitalism and the concept of protection of the integrity of intellectual works.

    The KJV is under royal patent to the crown, which the Yankees conveniently avoided by declaring independence.

    You can, in fact, read the entirety of these versions online without paying anything, which seems a pretty good deal to me. You just can't reproduce it as your own work.

    (There are some exceptions; a few MVs are copyright free and can be reproduced freely.)
     
  3. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    You only need to get permision to quote it according to normal copyright laws, which, to be fair, are quite liberal. You can use certain portions even for publication without having permission granted, as long as you acknowledge to source.

    No one needs permission to use any Bible for their own personal use.
     
  4. av1611jim

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    I guess I don't understand law. Let me get this right and you correct me ok?

    I can use any bible I want for personal use but I can't if I want to use it in a publication unless I get permission? But I could if I limit my use of it?

    If I have that right, then there is something very WRONG with that notion. Who are these men that they can restrict the use of God's Book like that?

    Many of you gentlemen say that the Bible is any version (within reason) out there. The Bible is God's Book, no? Then who are these men who put such restrictions on God's Book?

    I don't get it. Something stirs within me telling me this idea is wrong!

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  5. Alcott

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    Well, you must be as smart as they come-- you got that right on your own reasoning.

    If you want their names, write to the publishers.

    Same answer as above.

    Whatever you have within you that "stirs" is no concern of mine. See a doctor.
     
  6. rsr

    rsr
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    Your elected representatives.

    Besides:

    "For the scripture says, 'Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,' and, 'The worker deserves his pay.'"

    — I Timothy 5:18, New English Translation
     
  7. icthus

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    The Bible is the Word of God, and therefore belongs to God alone. No one has the right to copyright any version of the Bible, regardless of what man-made copyright laws there might be.

    The Bible clearly says: "freely have you received, freely give"
     
  8. rsr

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    Feel free to make your own translation.
     
  9. robycop3

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    The key word is "freely". As was said above, the fair usage laws are very liberal; however, not even the first copies of the AV 1611 were printed for FREE. Someone somewhere PAID for them.

    Most modern English Bibles (and quite a few non-English ones) are under copyright in the US, Canada, and England, to define how much of a given version may be legally reproduced in another publication to be SOLD. I have never heard...and I doubt if YOU have, either...of anyone ever having had a legal prob for reading aloud extensively from any Bible version on the air.
     
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    You may also use all the quotes you want in research .

    The problem is using another's work for your own personal financial profit. The KJV and a few others are in public domain and are not bound by those legal restrictions.

    How is it wrong for a company who spent a fortune on translational work to require your permission to use theur work?

    As someone suggested above, do your own translation and you will not need to acknowledge anyone.

    IMHO, this is amongst the weakest of all the KJVo arguements. I would dare say that 400 years from now the NKJV and many others will also be in public domain.
     
  11. gopchad

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    I think that the number of English translations today indicates that men are trying to profit from the Word of God. If one feels that there are better texts than those underlying the KJB then they have options, and have had them for a while. The KJV, NKJV, ASV, and NASB give men accurate translations of a particular text, and I can see no reason for the myriad translations available other than greed or pride or both. One thing that I think I can say with certainty, and this is not necessarily a judgement of the individual works, but I do not think that God is behind all of this translational brouhaha.

    Chad

    Just my opinion,

    Chad
     
  12. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Reasonable post - I can see that point.
     
  13. 4His_glory

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    I don't think that every new translation is copyrighted because of greed and pride. Unless we find the true reason behind this, we can not accuse the translators.

    My NJKV, says that I am alowed to copy it as long as I put NKVJ after the passage. I don't see what is wrong with that.
     
  14. Gold Dragon

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    You are welcome to that opinion.

    However if you are really interested in the motivations behind a particular translation, instead of simply speculating on them from your intuition, the preface of almost all translations will usually give you a brief outline of the thoughts of the publishers and translators without you having to guess at their motivations.

    Pride may be an issue, but I doubt that greed usually is. I never thought of bible translations as being a very profitable enterprise considering the amount of work that usually goes into it and how rarely a particular translations actually becomes popular and mainstream.
     
  15. Ed Edwards

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    AMen, Brother C4K -- Preach it! [​IMG]

    AV1611Jim: "What bothers me is the fact that, evidently, one must get permission to use a Bible? Something is VERY wrong with that idea."

    At least these modern versions are honest and straighforward
    abou the matter.

    The Authorized Version (AV) is deceptive on the matter.
    What "Authorized Version" is supposed to mean is that
    everytime you sell the Bible bearing "Authorized Version"
    you are supposted to pay your tax to the crown.
    Sorry, fellow Americans, we will have no king but KING JESUS.

    I get a monthly catalogue of Bibles and religions books from
    a Christian Distributor. Usually the cheapest bibles are some
    MV not some KJV. I don't think most of the Bible stores
    make their money on Bibles but on so called Chrsitian Books,
    CDs, and gift items.
     
  16. HankD

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    Life is oftentimes not fair and it's up to us to fix it or change the circumstances.

    For instance, when the King of England made things too hot for our forefathers they packed up and left for America, Geneva Bibles in hand.

    HankD
     
  17. Ed Edwards

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    Amen, Brother HankD -- Preach it!

    The Geneva Bible teaches that it is
    the ONLY TRUE BIBLE God has preserved for
    Centuries of English Speakers:

    Paslm 12:6-7 (Geneva Bible):
    The wordes of the Lord are pure wordes: as siluer tried in a fornace of earth purified seuen times.
    Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keepe them, (O Lord,) thou shalt preserue them, from this generation for euer.
     
  18. av1611jim

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    My purpose in posting the illustration and my comments was not to get into yet another merry go round about a persons version of choice.

    While I have no problem with a publisher of any book charging a certain price for his work in producing that book (including the raw resources like paper, leather etc.) I have a strong problem with that same company saying you can only use a small portion of that book, particularly when we speak of the Bible. Other published works are a different matter all together. But you gentlemen claim that most Bible versions are the word of God. By implication this means that the work is not theirs to limit. The work is God's.

    That is the problem. Another brother here has commented what is the substance of this whole thing. I don't think God is very pleased with such a plethora of translations since there are ( according to some) already many very good ones. To copyright your own words is one thing, and proper to do so to prevent someone from stealing your work. But doing the same thing with the word of God and passing it off as if it is your own, is very very wrong indeed.
    My opinion here has nothing to do with KJVo, BTW. It is all about a mere man putting a claim upon the Book of God which is not his own to claim.

    A passage comes to mind here, Pr 23:23
    Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

    Some would argue this means something unrelated to my comments. Okey-dokey. Have it your way. Nevertheless, I think it is VERY pertinent to the discussion. It is proper to recuperate your exspense in publishing God's book I suppose, but NOT proper to then put restrictions on its use.

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  19. Logos1560

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    An American publisher (Greyden Press) listed a copyright (2000) on their reprint of the 1611 edition of the KJV, and this publisher maintained that no one can "reproduce all or any portion of its contents without prior consent" (copyright page).

    The KJV still has copyright protection in Great Britain. The present-day Online Bible computer program includes the following note: "Extracts from the Authorised Version of the Bible, the rights in which are vested in the Crown, are reproduced by permission of the Crown's patentee."
     
  20. Phillip

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    AV1611jim, let me see if I can help with this. I work with copyright law in courts with attorneys all the time.

    Copyright law allows a company that makes it own work (and this includes a translation such as the NIV) to own the rights to "reproduce" that material. If they did not own the rights, someone else could start printing NIV's and take away the market. There is a good reason for this. The company that translated the NIV spent a lot of money to pay translators and editors to do their translation. For THIS reason, the company is protected from bootlegged copies much as a songwriter is protected from someone else publishing their music without permission.

    Look in your hymn book. You will find most of the music that is less than 100 years old still has a copyright on it.

    The reason the website gave a "thank you" to the copyright owners is because that website is "reproducing" either the entire translation or a major portion of the translation. You even have to pay a copyright to read the Bible, put it on a CD and sell it.

    You do NOT need permission to USE a Bible. You are given that permission when you purchased the Bible.

    Even the King James was held as protected by the crown (and I believe still is), but is in public domain outside of England. In 1611 only ONE company was allowed to print the KJV, then another company was added the next year.

    Because of this reason, the printers would print "Authorized Version" on their Bibles. ALL this meant was that the King had given permission to THAT printer to print and sell or distribute that Bible. The Authorized Version was much like the mark Microsoft puts on its software to let you know it is the real deal.

    All translations have copyrights. A few are now in the public domain due to their age. Such as the ASV, Bishops, Geneva and many others. These are the ones you find given away free with software. A lot of times a person will buy a cheap Bible software package and they have to pay extra for a serial number to "open" the NIV or another modern version.

    Some versions give permission to some software companies in order to get people interested in their Bibles. Holman has done this along with the ESV and you can download them free from E-sword.net. But, they do not have the NIV or the NKJV because neither one of those companies has given them permission to print their Bibles (even in the form of software.)

    There is another good reason for copyrights. It protects from bootlegged copies that are corrupted. What if someone took the NIV (for example) and rewrote some of it and published it as the NIV. You wouldn't have any idea if you had the real thing without the United States Patents and trademark office giving them permission to sell or give away their work.

    All songs, books, translations, anything that is printed today usually has a copyright and this not only protects the writer from loosing their investment, but it also prevents someone from bootlegging it and corrupting it.

    For more information on copyrights go to www.uspto.gov and read about copyright law.

    Also, find an NIV and it will explain just exactly how you can reproduce the NIV. It explains that you can use certain verses in works as long as it is not over a certain percentage of the work, it is marked (NIV) and you don't quote more than a certain number of verses.

    For example, the SBC has to pay the NIV to use it in their Sunday School literature. They use the KJV and NIV both in parallel for comparison. This probably had something to do with the fact the SBC translated their own version in the form of the Holman, because the NIV is not really that cheap.

    The bottom line, copyrights and permission are for "REPRODUCTION" only. If you were to reproduce the entire NIV and post it on a website where anybody in the world could download it for free---you would be breaking the law and the company could have a civil suit against you.

    Does that make sense?
     

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