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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by FrigidDev, Mar 29, 2016.

  1. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    While yes that is true, however the fact that they do reject God is what keeps them from getting forgiveness and salvation.

    John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
     
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  2. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    Let me put it this way, it is the rejection of God that keeps man under the condemnation from their sin.
     
  3. FrigidDev

    FrigidDev Member

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    Yes. I got to Tucson Baptist Church. Look us up.


    John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

    Explain to me if someone has never heard the name Jesus, how they become saved? Sure, God makes himself visible through nature. But African tribes have their gods that they believe created the world. The path to salvation is very specific, people being "aware" that God exists, doesn't mean that they will believe that Jesus is the son of God, came to earth, died for our sins, and rose again. That's the only way you can be saved, not just being aware of "some higher power".
     
  4. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Man is already under condemnation prior to any rejection of God. Their being lost in sin is what keeps them there, not rejection of God.
     
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  5. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Depending upon where you live, it may happen more than you might expect. There used to be a church that put large crowds of its evangelists on the streets of downtown Fort Worth every Friday night to "evangelize." One of their standard tactics was to point at people and scream, "You're going to burn in hell," to those waiting to buy tickets at the movie theater. Their message indicated that the threat of hell was for going to see a movie, as well as general assumed evil (since no faithful Christian would be in line for a movie).

    The church was named Kingdom Baptist Church out of the community of Venus, Texas. We even had one or two of their members on this site for awhile until they go banned. Apparently, the pastor and church decided to leave Fort Worth for the Ozarks of Missouri and have renamed themselves Long Run Baptist Church.

    So, longer story than intended, many residents of Fort Worth have frequently had threats of hell cast at them, and it wasn't a rare experience. I hope the rest of you are more fortunate.
     
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  6. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    Do you think God is obligated to allow people to hear about Jesus Christ if God knows they won't accept it anyway?

    Your missing the point, the point is that God is all knowing, and if there is someone out there in some far away land who WOULD accept Jesus Christ, God WILL send a missionary or someone to them.

    If God wants all men to be saved and is not willing that any should come to repentance, you can rest assured that God will send someone to them if he knows they can be saved.

    This is only a problem if you don't believe that God knows everything and is all powerful.
     
  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    So members of one single church? Sounds rare to me.
     
  8. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Valid point about the quantity of people engaging in that action. However, my point still stands that a small group of people can have an outsized influence through the sheer amount of effort with which they engaged the public.

    It actually comes up frequently with atheists I speak with on a normal basis. It is not a vague charge, but a specific experience. I have to explain the beliefs of the defunct Venus Baptist Church and why they may have done what they did. FWIW, they taught millennial exclusion, where Christians went to hell for sins like going to the movies, until they were finally punished enough that they might be made worthy. It was a fundamentalist purgatory scheme.

    Most people I know encountered those folks and were condemned. It's a relief that they have fled Texas.
     
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I am sure they ca. Such behavior is stupid and hateful and does nothing to represent God. In fact it is in line with (though not as extreme) as the attitude of extremists Muslims.

    However, rare as it is, it is not a noteworthy discussion.
     
  10. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    If you'll re-read what I wrote, and then compare that to FrigidDev's responses, you'll figure out what I was fishing for.
     
  11. FrigidDev

    FrigidDev Member

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    Where in the Bible do you find that?

    Would you have me believe that for thousands of years(before boats were made[when people thought that the entire world was already discovered]), on those remote islands which had NEVER had ANY contact with the outside world, for generation after generation after generation after generation after generation that the entire population of these remote islands would all unanimously reject Christ? You really believe that? Really? REALLY? That infuriates me.
     
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    They perished in their sins.....
     
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  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I am not accusing you of this issue, brother, but I have noticed that many people determine what is true and false based on what infuriates them. Jefferson did this when he made his own bible (Jefferson's bible ends at the tomb). Our feelings and preferences can never be the determining factor in biblical interpretation.
     
  14. FrigidDev

    FrigidDev Member

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    Yes that is my point. JonC δοῦλος somehow thinks that they would all collectively reject Christ. When in reality they simply never had a choice.

    Ok. So what? Are you going to actually address the post, or just focus on the last 3 words of it?
     
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  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I have addressed the post. We should not base what is true and false based on our "feelings." How many ways does Scripture state men can be saved? How about those who have never heard, what does the Bible say regarding their condemnation?

    It is not contact with the world or men that saves.
     
  16. FrigidDev

    FrigidDev Member

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    I'm not basing this on my feelings.

    Simple. If they have never heard the gospel, they will not be saved.

    Can you respond to that?
     
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  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I'm trying to see what you find so infuriating. Is it the idea of only one way to be saved or that men hold that belief?

    Before I respond to anything, are we talking about coming up with an answer that corresponds with Scripture or your ideologies?


    Sent from my TARDIS
     
    #37 JonC, Mar 31, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2016
  18. FrigidDev

    FrigidDev Member

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    I think it's kind of unsubstantiated to say that every single one of those tribesman for a millennium would all collectively reject Christ. The fact of the matter is that they never had a chance. They didn't reject Christ...they were never given a choice. They were born, lived, and then died, and are now being tortured for eternity.
     
  19. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    They do not want God or His word unless God opens their heart....
     
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    How do you know they all rejected Christ? How do you know they never had a chance? Even if that were true, what is it to you except perhaps an emphisis to make sure no one you encounter goes away without "having a chance"?

    Sent from my TARDIS
     
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