Places Where The NASBU Is More Literal...

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Rippon, Jun 3, 2013.

  1. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,407
    Likes Received:
    328
    compared with the ESV. Most of these comparisons are based on the footnotes of the ESV. When I make a note at times like" NIV sim.",that means that the NIV reading is similar to the NASBU reading and hence more literal than the ESV reading.

    Note: I do not believe that just because a given reading is more literal than that of another translation that it signifies that it is necessarily better. But a certain poster has claimed that the ESV is far less interpretational than the NASBU and I simply challenge that notion.

    Heb. figure of speech (hereafter fos) in Gen. 30:3 :Give birth on my knees
    NASBU :Bear on my knees ESV: Give birth on my behalf

    FOS in Gen.50:23 : Born on [his] knees : NASBU/ Born on [his] knees (NIV sim.) ESV/ Counted as his own

    FOS in Deut. 11:10 : Watered it with your feet NASBU/ water it with your foot (NIV sim.) ESV/ irrigated it

    FOS 1 Sam. 2:29/ Kick at /NASBU : kick at /ESV : scorn

    FOS in Ps. 30:9 : Blood/NASBU Blood/ ESV Death

    FOS in Pro. 15:30 :Makes fat /NASBU/Puts fat on/ESV/refreshes

    FOS in Is. 65:22 /Wear out/NASBU Wear out/ESV/Long enjoy

    FOS in Ez. 16:25 /Spreading your legs/NASBU/Spread your legs (NIV sim.)/ESV/Offering yourself

    To be continued...
     
  2. RLBosley

    RLBosley
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,752
    Likes Received:
    0
    Interesting. Thanks for this.

    Now this is the 95 updated NASB correct? Know anything about the older NASB? Can that even be found in the stores now?
     
  3. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    The premise that the NIV or ESV is more literal than the NASB is without merit.

    Lets consider the WEB translation, 3 She said, “Behold, my maid Bilhah. Go in to her, that she may bear on my knees, and I also may obtain children by her.” Fairly literal, yet conveys the idea plainly.
     
    #3 Van, Jun 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2013
  4. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,407
    Likes Received:
    328
    I was just using the NASBU; not the pre-95 version.
     
  5. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,407
    Likes Received:
    328
    The premise is that the NASBU is usually more literal than the ESV. The NIV is sometimes more literal than the ESV; normally it's the other way around.
     
  6. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,407
    Likes Received:
    328
    Based On ESV Footnotes...

    places where the NASBU (and sometimes the NIV) are more literal than the ESV. More literal does not necessarily mean better.

    In the New Testament. According to the Greek, will be the first word or phrase.

    In Matt. 16:23
    Stumbling block/NASBU/Stumbling block (NIV the same)ESV/hindrances

    In Matt. 18:23
    Causes to stumble/NASBU/Causes to stumble (NIV the same)/ESV Causes to sin

    In Matthew 18:34
    Torturers/NASBU/Torturers/ESV/jailer

    In John 18:34
    Have sin/NASBU/Have...sin/ESV/Have...guilt

    John 13:23
    In the bosom of Jesus/NASBU/On Jesus' bosom/ESV/At Jesus' side

    Acts 17:24
    Made by hands/NASBU/Made with hands (NIV sim.) ESV/Made by man

    Ro. 3:20
    Flesh/NASBU/Flesh/ESV/Human being

    Ro. 9:16
    Runs/NASBU/runs/ESV/exertion

    Ro. 15:28
    Sealed...this fruit/NASBU/Put my seal on this fruit/ESV/Delivered what has been collected
     
  7. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    Ok, I will bite, give me 3 or 4 examples where the ESV is more literal than the NASB95.

    The ESV pays lip service to all the right translation goals, but in actuality, they fall far short. I gave up on it after I realized the product did not live up to the brochure.
     
  8. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,407
    Likes Received:
    328
    Continuing with some places in which the NASBU is more literal than the ESV (along with a few examples of the NIV also being more literal than the ESV).

    In 1 Cor. 1:26
    Flesh/NASBU/Flesh/ESV/Worldly standards

    1 Cor. 11:30
    Asleep/NASBU Sleep (NIV sim.)/ESV Died

    1 Cor. 9:27
    Pummel my body and make it my slave
    NASBU : Discipline my body and make it my slave (NIV sim.)
    ESV: Discipline my body and keep it under control.

    2 Cor. 6:11
    Mouth...open
    NASBU : Mouth spoken freely
    ESV : spoken freely

    Gal. 1:15
    From my mother's womb
    NASBU : From my mother's womb (NIV sim.)
    ESV : before I was born

    2 Thess. 3:12
    Eat their own bread
    NASBU : Eat their own bread
    ESV : Earn their own living

    Jude 7
    Other flesh
    NASBU : Strange flesh
    ESV : Unnatural desire

    So far, in the examples I have given in this thread there are 24 times in which the NASBU is more literal than the ESV. And on 9 occasions the NIV is also more literal than the ESV.
     
  9. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    Would it be wrong to assume on the occasions where the ESV was as literal as the NIV (15 times) that many of the 15 times the ESV was more literal than the NIV. Was this number greater than 9?

    What we have here is a race to the bottom.
     
  10. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    Lets consider Galatians 1:15. Was Paul set apart while he was still in the womb, i.e. before he was born, or was he set apart when he was born? What is the meaning of the phrase, "from my mother's womb."

    Without knowledge of what might be implied if this is a Jewish idiom, just reading it, it says when a person is born, exiting out of the womb. Jeremiah 1:5 clearly indicates he was chosen while still in the womb. In Luke 1:15 even though the phrase is "from his mother's womb" we know he was able to discern the presence of Jesus before he was born, Luke 1:41. If we equate being "filled with the Holy Spirit" with discerning the presence of Jesus, then here we have an example where "from the womb" refers to while still being in the womb.

    Since the meaning either before birth or at birth is unclear, the best translation would be to simply put the phrase "from my mother's womb" rather than pick a side with a 50/50 chance of misrepresenting scripture.

    The ESV sees the phrase as meaning "before I was born" but the HCSB has it from my birth.
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,097
    Likes Received:
    49
    Paul was set apart from eternity, as God foreordained that he would be the Apsotle to the gentiles!
     
  12. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,407
    Likes Received:
    328
    Your thoughts are confusing. The ESV and NIV were not just as literal on 15 occasions,but more dynamic than the NASBU.
     
  13. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,407
    Likes Received:
    328
    Sorry,wrong post.
     
    #13 Rippon, Jun 5, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2013
  14. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    Well I am certainly confused now. Your evidence showed where the NASB was more literal than the ESV on 24 occasions. And you said on 9 of those occasions the NIV was similar to the NASB. This means to me both the NIV and NASB were similar in literalness, not similar in dynamic equivalence

    Flipping the terminology, your evidence says on 24 Occasions the ESV was more dynamic, less literal, than the NASB, and on 9 occasions the ESV was more dynamic and less literal than the NIV.
     
  15. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,407
    Likes Received:
    328
    On those nine occasions in which the NIV matched up...yes,they were both just as literal as the other.

    Yes. By George,you have it!
     
  16. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    How many of the 15 times (24 - 9) where both the ESV and NIV were more dynamic and less literal than the NASB, was the ESV more literal than the NIV?

    It appears to me that only Psalm 30:9 was the ESV more literal than the NIV. And in two of the cases, the NIV appeared to be more literal than the ESV, but less literal than the NASB.

    So based on these verses alone, rather than the balance of scripture, the NASB is the most literal, next the NIV, and the least literal is the ESV.

    Psalm 30:9 has literally in my blood. But blood is used to convey the idea of death. The ESV has death, so more dynamic than blood. But the NIV has "if I am silenced." That is further from the literal than the ESV.

    On the other hand, Proverbs 15:30 literally says good news makes fat on the bones, indicating good news aids in healthy bones. The NIV says "gives health to the bones, which is more literal than the ESV which has "refreshes the bones."

    And Romans 15:28 putting his seal on the fruit helps ensures the contribution arrives in an un-tampered condition. Thus the NIV is more literal than the ESV, which suggests sealing the fruit guarantees delivery.
     
    #16 Van, Jun 7, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2013
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,097
    Likes Received:
    49
    Think the 1977 version of Nasb is more literal still!
     

Share This Page

Loading...