Planting a church without being sent out?

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by Soulman, Nov 4, 2006.

  1. Soulman

    Soulman
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    What if a man has a burden to plant a church? The church he is in recently suffered a split and lost the Senior pastor. The intrum pastor was the assistant prior to the Senior leaving. Because the individual origionally tossed his hat into the ring to candidate for Senior pastor and withdrew it, the church won't send him out.

    Since this happened the man started his church without being sent out. Another local body of believers has consulted with him and is willing to make him a member of their church and send him out. Is that right?

    How does this sound to you? Confusing a little? :eek:
     
  2. JamieinNH

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    In my opinion, and I don't know church Politics all that well, but I would think this.

    If he has the burden to plant churches and win people to Christ, and that burden is from God, then isn't that all he needs?
     
  3. EdSutton

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    Well, it's not confusing to me, at all, and I agree wholeheartedly with Jamie in NH, here.

    Uh- I'm pretty sure that, at least in the case of Barnabas and Saul, it wasn't the "church that sent them out", per se, but the Holy Spirit, maybe - or did I misread this?
    Seems pretty clear to me, anyway. :thumbsup:

    Oh- uh - and from what you've written, it seems like the local church there would like 'to lay their hands on the person', as well. Although I'm not real sure their version of 'laying on of hands' is meant in exactly the same way, as the church at Antioch did it. :tongue3:

    Further, I read this -
    I don't see anything that says anyone had been "sent out" to start all these churches in vs. 31. But I did see this. That dude named Peter "could preach"! :thumbsup: One time it says about 3000 "were added to them"; Another time, Peter was preaching with John, and I assure you that "Promise Keepers" had nothing on these guys, for "the number of the men came to be about 5000"! And here, Peter (obviously with the power of the Holy Spirit), preached without saying anything to the crowd, but told Aeneas, a sick man, to get up, and also a dead woman to "arise". They did! Now, that's "preachin'"!

    If the Lord is telling him to 'start' a church, or 'join' another one - do it, like as David said to Solomon -
    Ed
     
    #3 EdSutton, Nov 4, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2006
  4. dh1948

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    Sounds Like A...

    ...Landmark Baptist idea to me. After all, how can you trace the lineage of your church all the way back to the seashore of Galilee if a church start is not sponsored by a church which was sponsored by a church which was sponsored by a church which was sponsored by a church..............:smilewinkgrin:
     
  5. gb93433

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    Rick Warren was sent by God and did not enlist the support of anyone. People came to him. Jesus sent His disciples out two by two.
     
  6. Soulman

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    Thanks for the input. I was thinking on these lines as well.
     
  7. El_Guero

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    Rick Warren was?

    I would like to hear the rest of that story.

    ;)

     
  8. gb93433

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  9. John of Japan

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    Well, I'm terribly sorry Ed, but I'll have to disagree to a degree here. Actually, if you'll look carefully at the passage in Acts 13 again, both the elders of the church and the Holy Spirit are said to be sending the church-planting missionaries out. In my view as a missionary, it is always wiser to have your home church support you and send you officially. That way you have, humanly speaking, credibility and accountability.

    Having said that, let me note two things. First of all, this is by example, not command. In other words, the Bible presents it as a good idea for the church planter to be sent out by the local church, but nowhere is it mandated. There is no sin if a man plants a church being sent out only by the Holy Spirit, with no church backing him.

    Secondly, the words for "sending" by the Holy Spirit and the elders are different in the Greek. The word for the elders of the church sending the men away is apoluo, a very strong word meaning to release, set free, or even sometimes used with the meaning of divorce! So the church at Antioch actually completely let go of the church planters, and had no authority over them. On the other hand, the word for the Holy Spirit sending Paul and Barnabas out is ekpempo, meaning simply to send someone out, to send someone on their way.

    So my conclusion is the same as Ed's, even if I got there a different way. :smilewinkgrin: If someone is being led by the Holy Spirit to start a church, even if for some reason they don't have a local church sending them, they should still go ahead and step out by faith! :thumbsup:
     
  10. Pastor Larry

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    The NT pattern is churches sending out church planters. You will find no exceptions to that. So why should we make one? That is not a Landmark idea in the least. It is the NT pattern.

    In the original case, it seems that the church is being snitty about it. Who knows. There is not enough information here. As with many discussions on the BB, there is just enough information given to support one side. What does the other side say? Would they agree that their reasoning was "because he threw his hat in the ring then withdrew it"? Or was there more? They may know something about this man that leads them to believe he is not gifted to plant a church. I would caution against making judgments on this limited information.

    In the case of joining a church just to sponsor a church plant, that is the way to do it, but there should probably be a year or two of ministry evaluation and training before he is sent out to plant a church. Before a church puts their money and effort into a church plant, they should make very sure that the lead planter is qualified, gifted, and able to do it.

    There may be cases in which a church could be planted without a sending church, but that would be extremely rare.
     
  11. IveyLeaguer

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    What was the split about?

    :jesus:
     
  12. Squire Robertsson

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  13. IveyLeaguer

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    Again, you've not provided enough information to warrant a well thought out response. What was the split about? Why did the other church support him? What was so offensive to the home church about the senior pastor that the assistant was guilty by association? Was it doctrinal in any way? Etc..

    :saint:
     
  14. thjplgvp

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    Squire,

    Not to rob from this thread but the list of "speakers of note" is a very impressive list humanly speaking.

    I am not sure how many have ever had the oportunity to hear Dr. Richard Mercado speak but he is truly one of the few who have the ability to paint pictures with words. A marvelous speaker.

    Thjplgvp
     
  15. EdSutton

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    I agree as to many on the list of speakers, generally, but do not know Dr. Richard Mercado, at all.

    Ed
     
  16. Bro. James

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    Sent--by whose authority?

    And then there was Joseph Smith Jr., Judge Rutherford, Jim Jones, et al; the list is quite lengthy--some still have large groups of followers. Most Mormons would consider themselves followers of Christ and in His Church.

    Now what?

    Who has the authority to send is still a valid question.:BangHead: It is still The Spirit, The Holy, Who came on the Day of Pentecost Who indwells all New Testament Churches; He guides Her (a New Testament Church), as the pillar and ground of the Truth.(Never had anything to do with the Holy See, by the way.) She is still in the world, but not of the world. She has been assaulted for nigh unto 2,000 years. She remains undefiled, without spot or blemish or any such thing--the Bride, waiting for the Groom to return.

    A sizeable portion of "Christendom" probably repudiates much of the aforementioned observations.

    It all makes sense, if one does not believe in a universal church.

    Choose wisely,:BangHead:

    Bro. James
     
  17. Pastor Larry

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    yes, but how does the Spirit work? As you say, He "indwells all New Testament Churches; He guides Her (a New Testament Church), as the pillar and ground of the Truth."

    Acts 13 clearly shows the Spirit working through the church, not apart from her.
     
  18. Squire Robertsson

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    What does this have to do either with the OP or the case (which was a common Northern Baptist practice) of Hamilton Square nee Zion Baptist Church?
     
  19. Bro. James

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    A burden for planting a church...

    Most of my comments were aimed at answering the question: What if a man has a burden for planting a church?

    There is little doubt Joe Smith Jr. had a burden about planting a church. The question still remains: Who has the authority to baptize and from whence is the authority derived? To conclude that the size of the work indicates its rightness and authority to exist and function is a serious error. If size determines the rightness, we should be seeking Mormon missionaries or perhaps the followers of Allah.

    The remnant of God has always been small compared to the religions of the world.

    Usurped authority is no authority at all--regardless of how many centuries have passed. This also creates an authority dilemma for those who would "reform". How does one reform something which was without authority from inception, save from the State. Giving the State religions dubbing authority has also created many problems for mainstream "Christendom". i.e. Are the baptisms performed by a defrocked pedophile prior to defrocking valid?

    All of this does not matter if there is the umbrella called the Universal Church, invisible anyway. Of course the visible Universal Church would disagree.

    At some point we fall into the abyss of legalism.

    The question still stands: Whence cometh the authority to baptize?:BangHead:

    Choose wisely,

    Bro. James
     
    #19 Bro. James, Nov 7, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2006
  20. John of Japan

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    I fail to see any similarity whatsoever between the cults and a good Baptist thinking about starting a church. The comparison is completely invalid, IMO. Go back to square one, Bro. James, and try again.
     

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