Poll: Antichrist

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by LadyEagle, Jun 19, 2003.

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Do you believe the Antichrist (though unknown at present) is alive today?

  1. Yes.

    80.3%
  2. No.

    19.7%
  3. Don't believe in LITERAL interpretation of Book of Revelation, only figurative.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
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    Rev. 13:[15] And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    [16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

    [17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

    [18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
     
  2. Pete

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    1: Don't know.

    2: Answer #1 seems very possible...Worth keeping an eye on developments.

    3: Pastor's wife just did series on book of Revelation, so I guess that is a yes ;)

    4: I think we have been in the last days since Jesus ascended...As for last last days (events of Revelation etc, who knows...)

    Watch and pray [​IMG]

    Pete
     
  3. wizofoz

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    Everyone knows that Bill Gates is the Antichrist. ;)
     
  4. RaptureReady

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    Looking at the results, it looks like some need to read and study their Bible more.

    Another questions might be asked also, will we as Christians be here for these things when they happen?
     
  5. BrianT

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    Agreed, and I answered 'yes' to the question from this perspective (Acts 2:17, Heb 1:2, etc.) not from the 'not many days/months/years left' perspective.
     
  6. mozier

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    We are indeed living in the End Times, and the Rapture is coming sooner than we think.

    My only fear in all of this is that my wife and daughters will be left behind (they are not saved - yet). [​IMG]


    mozier
     
  7. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    There is no way to know the answer to questions 1, 2, and 4. The answer to #3 is "Yes." But we preach what the Bible says, and that precludes concrete identification of the answers to the other issues. I do not believe it is fiction or spiritual. I believe these are references to literal things. But believers fro 2000 years would have answered #4 in the affirmative. Since Pentecost, we have been living in the last days. The present existence of Antichrist may or may not be true. Since we do not konw who it is, we have know way of knowing. The Mark of the beast could be a number of things. Again, the Bible does not explicitly say.

    This is an area where people dangerously add to God's word and preach as revealed doctrine that which their fertile imaginations have concocted. There was a guy in my church convinced that the RCC was the harlot church and the pope was the Antichrist. I had to continually remind him that that may indeed be the case, but the Bible doesn't say that. Therefore, we must not be dogmatic on what the Bible doesn't reveal.
     
  8. KenH

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    I am sorry that your eschatology causes you such pain. May God bless you.
     
  9. Pastor Chet

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    I don't think that it is his Eschatology that causes him much pain, but rather the fact that his loved ones are not saved.
    chet
     
  10. Grasshopper

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    Let scripture interpret scripture

    1. The first mistake is you assume the "antichrist" is the same as the Beast.

    2. 16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

    Deuteronomy 6
    8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads.

    Deuteronomy 11
    18 Fix these words of mine in your hearts and minds; tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads.

    [17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name

    Matt. 21:12Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves.

    Notice where the buying and selling were taking place? In the Temple.
    John 16
    2They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God.

    Acts 21

    30The whole city was aroused, and the people came running from all directions. Seizing Paul, they dragged him from the temple, and immediately the gates were shut.

    [18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

    Let us now turn to consider this seven-headed Beast. In Revelation 17 a vision of the seven-headed Beast is recorded. Regarding this vision we read in verses 9 and 10: "Here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."
    Most New Testament scholars recognize that the seven mountains represent the famous seven hills of Rome. The seven hills of Rome are mentioned time and again by both ancient pagan and Christian writers.
    John wrote to be understood: "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand" (Rev. 1:3). In fact, he specifically points out here that the wise one will understand: "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth" (17:9). The referent is beyond doubt: Rome is alluded to in this vision of the seven-headed Beast. The original recipients of Revelation lived under the rule of Rome, which was universally distinguished by its seven hills. How could the recipients, living in the seven historical churches of Asia Minor and under Roman imperial rule, understand John's vision as anything other than this geographical feature?
    But the vision causes John to wonder in quiet confusion. There is a difficulty involved. And that difficulty is that the seven heads have a double reference. We learn further that the seven heads also have a political referent: "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space" (Rev. 17:10).
    It is surely no accident that Nero was the sixth emperor of Rome. Flavius Josephus, the Jewish contemporary of John, clearly points out that Julius Caesar was the first emperor of Rome and that he was followed in succession by Augustus, Tiberius, Caius, Claudius, and, sixthly, Nero (Antiquities, books 18 and 19). The matter is confirmed just a little later in the writings of Roman historians: Suetonius, Lives of the Twelve Caesars and Dio Cassius, Roman History 5.
    The text of Revelation says that of the seven kings "five have fallen." These emperors are dead, when John writes. But the verse goes on to say "one is." That is, the sixth one is then reigning even as John wrote. That would be Nero Caesar, who assumed imperial power upon the death of the fifth emperor, Claudius, in October, A.D. 54. Nero remained emperor until his suicide in A.D. 68, a period of over thirteen years.
    John continues: "The other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space." As the Roman Civil Wars broke out in rebellion against Nero, Nero committed suicide on June 8, A.D. 68. John informs us that the seventh king was "not yet come." That would be Galba, who assumed power upon Nero's death in June, A.D. 68. But he was only to continue a "short space." As a matter of historical fact, his reign lasted but six months until January 15, A.D. 69. He was one of the quick succession of emperors in the famous era called by historians: "the year of the four emperors."
    Now some evangelical commentators, such as John Walvoord, would attempt to circumvent this political evidence by pointing out difficulties. His evidence is two-fold: (1) Our text is taken from a highly figurative vision. (2) It is introduced by a call for "the mind which has wisdom," which seems to indicate the difficulty of the interpretation.
    This, however, is twisting the text to say what it does not say. It is true that upon seeing the symbolic vision itself, John was in fact perplexed and confused: he "wondered with great wonder" (Rev. 17:1, 7a). But in response to his confusion, an interpretive angel appears with the express promise that he would show John the proper understanding (Rev. 17:7): "Why do you wonder? I shall tell you the mystery." Revelation 17:9 and 10 is the explication of the vision. It is not given to make the matter more difficult! The inherent difficulty requiring wisdom lay in the fact that the seven heads had a double referent: geographical and political. The angel functions here much like the angel in Revelation 7:13, 14 to interpret the prophetic vision. His presence to John was to clearup John's confusion, not to increase it.
    Thus, we see that while John wrote, the sixth emperor was ruling from the Seven Hilled City. This is surely Nero, the sixth emperor of Rome. Galba, the short-lived seventh emperor, was looming in the near future. And there is more evidence.
    The Beast Out of the Sea
    Nero and Nero alone fits the bill as the specific or personal expression of the Beast. This vile character fulfills all the requirements of the principles derived from the very text of Revelation itself. Those principles are particularly abundant in Revelation 13. Notice:
    First, in Revelation 13:18 the number of the Beast is the number of "a man" and that number is "666." Now the usefulness of this number lies in the fact that in ancient days alphabets served a two-fold purpose. Letters functioned, of course, as phonetic symbols. As such, they functioned just as our modern alphabet. But in ancient times letters also served as numerals, in that the Arabic numbering system was a later development of history.
    A Hebrew spelling of Nero Caesar's name was Nrwn Qsr n, e,r, o, n; q, s, r. It has been documented by archaeological finds that a first century Hebrew spelling of Nero's name provides us with precisely the value of 666. Is it not remarkable that this most relevant emperor has a name that fits precisely the required sum? Is this sheer historical accident? But there is more.
    Second, the textual variant. If you consult a Bible with marginal references you may notice something of interest regarding Revelation 13:18. Your reference may say something to the effect: "Some manuscripts read 616." The fact is that the number 666 in some ancient manuscripts of Scripture is actually changed to 616. But why? Was it changed accidentally, or on purpose?
    The difference surely is no accident of sight made by an early copiest. The numbers 666 and 616 are not even similar in appearance in the original Greek--whether spelled out in words or written out as numerals. As textual scholars agree, it must be intentional.
    A strong and most reasonable case may be made for the following probability. John, a Jew, used a Hebrew spelling of Nero's name in order to arrive at the figure 666. But when Revelation began circulating among those less acquainted with Hebrew, a well-meaning copiest who knew the meaning of 666 might have intended to make its deciphering easier by altering it to 616. It surely is no mere coincidence that 616 is the numerical value of "Nero Caesar," when spelled in Hebrew by transliterating it from its more widely familiar Latin spelling.
    Such a conjecture would satisfactorily explain the rationale for the divergence: so that the non-Hebrew mind might more readily discern the identity of the Beast. Such a possibility offers are markable confirmation of the designation of Nero.

    Last Days?

    The Last Days were the last days of the Old Covenant. Anything else makes the words of Jesus and the Apostles deceptive.
     
  11. Pastor Larry

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    Since Christ returns at the end of teh last days, how do you make sense of this? The Old covenant ended at the cross. Yet for nearly 70 years after that, the apostles talked about the last days. Clearly Christ had not returned in that time. Plus if those were the last days, what are these?? After all, we are still here.
     
  12. wopik

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    the Rapture is coming sooner than we think.

    Not all Christians belief the "Rapture" is a biblical concept. Where is it taught??
     
  13. dianetavegia

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    Rapture: The transporting of a person from one place to another, especially to heaven.

    1 Thessalonians 4:17 -
    Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. NKJV
     
  14. BrianT

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    That verse doesn't mention heaven. ;)
     
  15. Gunther

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    BrianT, most people I know take that verse and compare it with John 14:1-3.
     
  16. Grasshopper

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    Since Christ returns at the end of teh last days, how do you make sense of this? The Old covenant ended at the cross. Yet for nearly 70 years after that, the apostles talked about the last days. Clearly Christ had not returned in that time. Plus if those were the last days, what are these?? After all, we are still here.

    Christ returned (Parousia) in 70AD.
    http://www.eschatology.org/articles/secondcoming/parousia.htm

    The Old Covenant did not end at the cross. It ended in 70AD. Look what the reader of Hebrews says:
    Hebrews 8

    13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

    Notice will SOON disappear.

    The days we live in are refferred to as the "age to come" by the Apostles.

    "The Jews only believed in two ages. They believed in what they called "this age" and "the age to come."
    The Jews believed that this age was the age of Moses and the Law, and was, even as Ice suggests (p. 2), the time when Israel awaited the fulfillment of her prophetic hope. The Jews believed that the age to come would be the age of Messiah and the New Covenant. (cf. Hebrews 2:1-5).
    The Jews believed that this age would end, but the age of the Messiah, the age to come, would never end (Isaiah 9:6-9; Luke 1:32-33; Ephesians 3:20-21).
    Jesus definitely taught the existence of only two ages, and he used the terms this age and the age to come. He knew he was living in this age, and was anticipating the age to come. Thus, our first point is established. Ice even concurs: "The Jewish perspective of Bible prophecy views history as consisting of two ages. The first was 'this present age,' the age in which Israel was waiting for the coming of Messiah. The second was 'the age to come,' the age in which all promises and covenants would be fulfilled and Israel would enter her promised blessings as a result of Messiah 's coming." (p. 18)."

    http://www.eschatology.org/articles/lastdays/agetocome.htm
     
  17. BrianT

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    That passage doesn't mention heaven either. ;)
     
  18. Tim

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    The New Covenant did begin at the cross, but vestiges of the Old remained until Jerusalem (particularly the temple) was destroyed.

    Tim
     
  19. dianetavegia

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    BrianT... Wopik had asked where Rapture was mentioned in scripture and I answered his question.

    Diane

    p.s. And thus we shall always be with the LORD.
    And Jesus is where????????????? Seated at the right hand of the FATHER????
     
  20. dianetavegia

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    BrianT., your profile says you are Baptist but waivering. May I respectfully ask which denomination you are considering? I ask because I read that the majority of new converts to LDS are Baptist and since you're questioning heaven...

     

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