Poor Recruiter Tubby Smith

Discussion in 'Sports' started by Nicholas25, Feb 13, 2007.

  1. Nicholas25

    Nicholas25
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    Florida beat KY on Saturday night and the ESPN announcers were talking about how Tubby didn't recruit Brewer because he thought he was too thin to play in the SEC. Tonight my Vols beat "Big Blue", and we know that Tubby passed on former KY Mr. Basketball, Chris Lofton. This guy has passed on many good players and has to take a huge portion of the blame for the KY program fading a little bit.
     
  2. PastorSBC1303

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    I am amazed that this post has done unanswered by some of the loyal UK fans on the board....

    But hey, I am all for poor recruiting at UK, keep up the good job Tubby :)
     
  3. AF Guy N Paradise

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    I am as loyal as any UK fan and I have been saying for years that I didn't think Tubby was a great recruiter or a great coach. Of course, I always cheer for the team and always will.

    They have a very tough end of schedule but we are a dangerous team in the tourney, but watch out next year! We lose no significant player and our talented FR will be a year more savvy.

    The final four next year is here in San Antonio and I will be there! I will also be at the regionals this year in SA! Bring onMarch Madness!
     
  4. convicted1

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    RE: Tubby

    I have to agree that "Tubbs" tends to stink in the recruiting dept, but the year they passed on Chris Lofton, they got a McDonald's All-American in Randolph Morris, McD's PG in Rajon Rondo, and a McD's SG in Joe Crawford. On paper, Rondo and Crawford would have been locks for picks over Lofton on any NCAA basketball team. So I don't think Tubby should catch any heat in regards to not recruiting Lofton. As far a Ronnie Brewer goes, that is all on Tubby. Go to www.kentuckysportsradio.com and read how Tubby handled a recruit from NC or SC that wanted to go to UK, but Tubby "rescheduled" his visit FOUR times!! He eventually commited to Oklahoma State. His name is Marshall Moses. He was not a top 100 player, but he was really good according to the people on that website. You may have to scroll down a ways or maybe even go to page two, but it should be there, somewhere. They are actively recruiting Patrick Patterson, a PF from Huntington, Wva...Florida is hot on his trail, too. They are also after Jai Lucas, John Lucas' son, a PG. Both are top 30 players. In the end, Patterson ends up at Florida, Jai Lucas ends up at Oklahoma State, and Tubby ends up with the "pinkslip". Mark my words. I hope I am wrong, but I don't like the direction in which UK is heading. It's looking like a downward spiral. I have been and always be a UK fan, but this is embarassing!!!
     
  5. TomVols

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    Convicted is right about why Lofton did not receive any notice from UK. He didn't get recruited by the Cards', either. And former UT coach Buzz Peterson was a great recruiter, despite all of his troubles with X's and O's.

    I don't think there's any question that UK is not the UK of old. However, it's not all Tubby's fault. Other programs in the SEC have simply caught up with UK's recent success. UT is once again a legit power. Florida is a national champion and under Donnovan is going to be a contender for a long time. Georgia and Vandy are on the doorstep of being great programs. One or two teams in the West could be in the mix if their coaches get their act together (Gottfried at Bama, Brady at LSU).

    Having lived a great chunk of my life in Kentucky and always lived either in or on the border of the state, and knowing many UK backers and supporters, I know this: Tubby has never been a popular hire. Never. Less popular than Pitino, and I didn't think that was possible. When UK wins, it's the players, former coaches leaving the cupboard full, etc. When UK loses, it's either Tubby's fault or the referees' fault (and often Tubby gets the blame for that, too). I have heard more than one comment on KY sports radio from fans that they wish UK would tank so Tubby can be fired. I hear it more in private from UK fans. The recruiting "woes" are now the latest drumbeat to replace Tubby. That could backfire. Barnhart has shown with Brooks that he has patience with his coaches. Will UK boosters pressure UK's president to oust Barnhart, if he won't get rid of Smith?

    I don't like some of the things Smith has done off the court, but on the court he gets mileage out of his players. To fight FLA like the Cats did at home, and to claw back in and make a game of it in Knoxville against the Vols shows me something. UK will be dangerous in the SEC tourney and the Big Dance.

    I believe UK is in pretty good hands right now. Not good enough for most UK fans, but good enough for Barnhart and the administration. Can Tubby get UK back to a Final Four soon? Good question. But I believe Tubby will have ample time to do so, if the administration has anything to say about it.
     
  6. Bob Alkire

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    My wife is from Ky. and loves the Cats, but as I tell her, they are like Al. football, they will never be happy, because the man in the brown suit isn't coming back!

    Who has been a popular hire? It wasn't Joe B. or anyone else!
     
  7. EdSutton

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    23,000 + average in Rupp Arena all these years say that all the 'hires' haven't been all that unpopular. If they were, season-tickets would be easy to come by. :rolleyes:

    Granted, the 'fan' on the 'street' is only sometimes happy when the NCAA championship banner hangs from the rafters at Rupp. And every year, at that!

    Last time I counted there were seven, and with four coaches.

    In fact, the only coach UK has had in the last 75+ years who did not win a title was one with the same name as I have, that 'slouch of a coach', Eddie Sutton, obviously a poor coach, who 'only' managed to win 794 games from the bench in NCAA Div. 1, BB; become the first coach in history to coach four different teams to the NCAA tourney, and only managed to win over 1000 games as a head coach at any level. Double :rolleyes:!

    No other school has that many, with as many different coaches, with NC next with four banners under three coaches.

    Ed
     
    #7 EdSutton, Feb 23, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2007
  8. Bob Alkire

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    Not to give you ahard time but Al. football is sold out also. And in Gainesville they are still trying to get us to love the basketball team more. If Billy keeps going he might get a lot of Florida fans to raise their interest in the round ball, but as of now it is still football, you can keep your job if you can beat FSU and Ga. anything else is gravy. Like when the Bear was coaching football at UK.
     
  9. TomVols

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    Exactly right Bob, on all counts. And the people who are grumbling are the donors, who own those season tickets in Lexington. The man on the street doesn't have those tickets, like at many institutions.

    The state of Kentucky has no professional sports teams. Therefore, UK is magnified. So the fact that the turnstiles continue to click at Rupp doesn't mean all is well. Even before UT's recent surge, Tenn had one of the top attendance figures in America. UT can have a collapse like 2005 in Football and still draw over 100,000 per outing. Why? Season tickets are bought and paid for with donor dollars, so the tickets are going to be used.

    You draw an interesting parallel. If UK were to pull the trigger on Tubby and the next coach were to flounder, would UK go the way of Bama football and become irrelevant?
     
  10. EdSutton

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    Strange, I just checked.

    UK is tied for the second best overall record among the SEC teams, behind only defending national champion Fla., [tied with Ala., half a game better than UT (Sorry about that, TomVols!) and a game better than Vandy and Ala. and two and a half better than UGa. and MSU, and three better than Ark.]; and is tied for the second best conference record (with Vandy), again behind only Fla., a game better than UT, UGa., Ole Miss and MSU, two better than Ala. and three better than Ark. and Auburn, and a "country mile" ahead of both USC and LSU, two-time defending NIT champion, and defending "Final Four" participant respoectively, the last two teams of which seem to have really hit the skids, lately, in a twelve team league. And UK "strength-of-schedule", for what ever that is worth, is in the top five, and I believe actually #3 in the country. If that is exactly what equals "in the tank", the tank must be pretty shallow, considering the one potential "big 'plow' horse", although not a thoroughbred, of the season, Jared Carter, went down with injury, and the rest of the team has lately become "The gang that can't shoot straight", aside from Morris and sometimes Bradley and Crawford.

    I do seem to recall over the years that UK under Rupp, Hall, Sutton, Pitino, and Smith has usually lasted far longer in the NCAA tourney, than most of the other SEC schools, on average, even when rated behind some other SEC teams, with the notable exception of last year. And as one noted, "Tubby" did not become a three-time "Coach of the year" by being a bad coach. And since Rupp is deceased, Hall and Sutton are both retired and Pitino is in the Derby City, it looks like we UK fans are stuck in, I mean with, Orlando for at least the time being.

    Just my two pfennings worth!

    Ed
     
    #10 EdSutton, Feb 23, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2007
  11. Bob Alkire

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    Ed, I for one like Tubby and think he is a good coach. But as my wife and her family tells me, I'm not a big fan of round ball. They and a lot of UK fan are the ones who don't care for Tubby.

    We were in Bowling Green, Ky. this week for my father in law's funeral and next to him, what to do with Tubby was what everyone wanted to talk about. With that said, I don't think it was as bad as when Joe B. Hall was coach, but very near. He had a good record too.

    As Tom said, I think the insiders, the money are the ones who are the most unhappy and some talk radio people and news paper writers. If I recall correctly, a lot of the UK fans said Joe B. couldn't coach, Rick was to slick, Eddie was to much of a drinker and Tubby isn't a good recruiter.
     
    #11 Bob Alkire, Feb 24, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2007
  12. AF Guy N Paradise

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    I like Tubby as a person but I don't think he is a great coach or a great recruiter. I do think he is a good man and a good coach. He is very stubborn and will not change his game plan regardless of who he has playing for him. This is why IMO he can't get the top recruits. Most do not want to play this style of basketball.

    I will always pull for UK regardless of who coaches but I personally would prefer a coach with more of an upbeat style who presses more and who has players that are constantly hustling for 40 minutes. Tubby's players just don't seem to have that spark and for the most part they never have. I also would like a coach with KY roots like John Pelphrey or Travis Ford. These guys understand KY basketball and their fans.

    In saying all of this, I get sick of the folks who actually think the reason that some want Tubby out is because he is black. Even the fans that don't like his coaching like him as a person. UK fans wouldn't care if the coach is blue, red, or yellow as long as he had passion and WON!
     
  13. TomVols

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    AF Guy,
    Sorry, but most of the talk I've heard from day one of the Tubby era centered around Tubby's race, that a black coach would never be accepted in Lexington. It is what it is. I hope all UK fans are not that way, but I and most all of my UK friends sure hear that talk.

    EdSutton is right about UK not exactly being 10-18 right now, yet that's the way people talk. Problem is, at UK, not being ranked or being in the bottom of the polls isn't good enough...it's not even in the same area code as good enough. UK and Duke are both not having UK and Duke-like seasons. Neither is UConn. It has to frost UK fans that Butler, Nevada, and Southern Illinois are ranked higher than they are, and that at one point in the season UK was considered 3rd or 4th best in the East, and on the bubble of being in the lower half of SEC teams overall. Things like this happen. The tournament is the great equalizer, and if UK doesn't do well in the SEC and NCAA tourneys, the pressure on Tubby could increase.
     
  14. convicted1

    convicted1
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    RE:Tubby

    Well, once again UK manages to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory:BangHead: :tonofbricks: !!! How much longer are we to suffer like this?? This is not UK basketball. I watched a majority of the second half of the Vandy game yesterday, and kept wondering how they were going to lose this one, and guess what? They did. Their players just aren't mentally tough enough for the rigors of the SEC. Look at the Florida game. Ramel Bradley hot-dogged UK into an'L'. The Tennessee game at TN. Two straight turnovers in the last minute of the game...they lose by 4. Yesterday's stretch of 8 TO's in 8:15 is ridiculous!! Until the coach/and or recruiter leaves, this will be the norm, I am afraid. I have backed Tubby from day one, but I no longer believe he is the coach we need.

    Ramel Bradley is a lot of our problem, but Tubby keeps him in the game. He will not pass the ball during the last possession of the game. He threw up a WILD shot versus Florida that clanked! He drove the lane and tried to throw up a shot being double teamed in the paint versus Vandy yesterday. He missed 5 free throws versus Florida. Need I say more. He just isn't SEC caliber. He can score 15-20 points, but when they need him the most, he either throws the ball away, misses FT's, or puts up wild shots that have very little chance of going in. Until we get a suitable PG, UK will lose 10+ games EVERY year. Does that sound like UK BB? Thought not. Thanks for reading my rants. May God bless!!
     
  15. TomVols

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    I know you guys don't want to hear this, but I think it was an admirable job just being in the games at Vandy and Tenn. UT forced those turnovers at Knoxville, and Vandy wasn't exactly on their hands. Byars got over on UK, pure and simple. UK was getting blown out of the building at UT and managed to make a game of it. UK played a better Vandy team on the road down to the last possession. No one is winning on the road in the SEC this year.

    UK is going to the dance because it's UK. No one is going to want to draw you guys early. Let's see what the last week of the season and the SEC tourney holds.
     
  16. AF Guy N Paradise

    AF Guy N Paradise
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    I feel your pain and have done so for a couple of years now...
     
  17. TomVols

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    Heard the rumor today that Barnhardt is being pressured to look for a way to buy out Tubby. Candidates include John Pelphrey (South Alabama), Travis Ford (UMass), Tom Crean (Marquette), and a fourth escapes me right now.

    This may just be the UK media, but maybe you guys are going to get your wish.

    Obviously, what is not rumor is Barnart's statement that some perceive to be less than supportive, saying that the situation should be evaluated in March. Some have thought that this is Barnhart's way of using a poor March run as an excuse to placate the restless by firing Tubby.

    http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/16791626.htm

    Couldn't find the actual wording of the statement at the UK athletic dept website.
     
    #17 TomVols, Feb 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2007
  18. AF Guy N Paradise

    AF Guy N Paradise
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    Yep, heard the same thing too. I think it will happen if we exit the first or 2nd round of the tourney if we make the tourney that is...
     
  19. TomVols

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    You'll make the tourney. You're Kentucky. You're not going to get excluded.
     
  20. go2church

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    Stupid rabid fans, good man, good coach, good program = fire the bum!

    As an aside don't forget that when a player leaves early you don't get replace that scholarship, it's gone (see UConn!), you end up with less in the cupboard or really young raw players.

    Would like to think UK fans have grown past the race thing, but too many of my family members that live there are not exactly, shall we say open minded about the whole race issue
     

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