Pop Quiz! - Impeccability of Christ

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by whatever, Apr 14, 2006.

  1. whatever

    whatever
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    2,088
    Likes Received:
    0
    Could Christ have sinned? Why or why not?
     
  2. billreber

    billreber
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2005
    Messages:
    461
    Likes Received:
    0
    COULD Christ have sinned? Because He was fully human, He was tempted just as are we. He COULD have sinned, but He did not.

    DID Jesus sin? Emphatically, NO. He remained sinless by always obeying the Father, even unto death. His sinless life on earth allowed Him to take the punishment for our sins, death on the cross. He was the "perfect Lamb of God".

    But even greater was His resurrection from the dead! If He had remained dead, there would be no evidence that we had been forgiven. Because He rose from the dead, we, too, have the hope (given by God the Father) of forgiveness and life with God. But we must obtain this firguveness in the way specified by God -- belief in Jesus as the Son of God.

    Readers, have YOU accepted Jesus? Do YOU have the promised eternal life?

    Bill
     
  3. 4His_glory

    4His_glory
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    2,884
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, Christ could not have sinned, even though the temptations were real, and He was fully man, He was also fully God, He could not have sinned.
     
  4. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,836
    Likes Received:
    115
    Jesus Christ is and was Perfect. He is and was so because he is sinless.

    He is considered sinless not because he couldn't sin, but because he didn't sin.

    He had no sin nature, that's true. Your sin nature is what makes you a sinner, not your sins. That's what has to change to make you a christian...you have to go from a sin nature to a new nature. And even after that...you still sometimes sin.

    But Jesus had no sin nature...if he did, he would have been a sinner.

    The temptations of Jesus found in the Bible are very important to study. If the fact of the matter was that while on earth he couldn't sin, then the only purpose of the story would be to show the stupidity of the devil.

    But because, temporarily as a human, he could have made choices that satisfied the flesh, but did not, it's very important to study the temptations of Jesus for our own sake.

    We learn how to escape sin by studying Jesus' response as a human to the devil.

    Jesus escaped sin, not by getting into a "conversation" with the devil as did Eve, but by letting the Father do the "talking" by quoting scripture passages as a shield. He quoted passages from the book of Deuteronomy three times when the devil tried to tempt him.

    Remember this? "Thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against Thee."

    Jesus understood that principle.

    Jesus could have come down off of the cross, too, but he didn't. He was obedient unto death.

    And as a human, he prayed in agony to God for his burden to be taken away, for there to be another was to save humanity....and even though God's plan marched forward, Jesus did not rebel against it....he submitted to it.

    Could Jesus have "sinned"...was he tempted satisfy his own flesh and will? Yes.

    But he did not.

    And that's because what he did choose was complete surrender and obedience to the will of God the Father.

    I know what I have said sounds contradictory...he had no sin nature to begin with vs. he chose not to sin.

    But I believe them both.

    He did, in fact, have no sin nature at all.

    And he did, in fact, when presented with an opportunity to give into selfishness, pride, the flesh....chose to act in accordance with the will of God and chose not to even consider them.

    Peace-
    Scarlett O.
    <><
     
  5. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    This statement, I think, is too strong, and goes against the sovereignty of God. A truly sovereign God can do anything he wishes and is certainly way above any arrogant human judgements as to how he should or should not act. The answer, therefore, is yes, Jesus could do anything he wishes to do, including sin. That is the hypothetical...the theoretical. The reality is, he has never chosen to sin, and I believe, never would.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  6. Andy T.

    Andy T.
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    3,147
    Likes Received:
    0
    This statement, I think, is too strong, and goes against the sovereignty of God. A truly sovereign God can do anything he wishes and is certainly way above any arrogant human judgements as to how he should or should not act. The answer, therefore, is yes, Jesus could do anything he wishes to do, including sin. That is the hypothetical...the theoretical. The reality is, he has never chosen to sin, and I believe, never would.

    Joseph Botwinick
    </font>[/QUOTE]I don't think God, or Jesus, or the Holy Spirit can do anything. The certainly can do anything they want. But what they want is always righteous. They are limited by their nature, which is completely holy. Therefore, it is impossible for God to sin, including Jesus during his earthly ministry.
     
  7. Bill Brown

    Bill Brown
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    This statement, I think, is too strong, and goes against the sovereignty of God. A truly sovereign God can do anything he wishes and is certainly way above any arrogant human judgements as to how he should or should not act. The answer, therefore, is yes, Jesus could do anything he wishes to do, including sin. That is the hypothetical...the theoretical. The reality is, he has never chosen to sin, and I believe, never would.

    Joseph Botwinick
    </font>[/QUOTE]Sorry Joe, I'm going to have to depart with you on that one.

    Leviticus 11:44-45 44 'For I am the LORD your God. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy; for I am holy. And you shall not make yourselves unclean with any of the swarming things that swarm on the earth. 45 'For I am the LORD, who brought you up from the land of Egypt, to be your God; thus you shall be holy for I am holy.'"

    The holiness of God is resident in the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. It is one of the immutable attributes of God. There are certain things God cannot do, namely He cannot go against His nature or violate His word. Why?

    1 Samuel 15:29 29 "And also the Glory of Israel will not lie or change His mind; for He is not a man that He should change His mind."

    Hebrews 4:14-15 14 Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

    Here we read that Jesus Christ "passed through the heavens." That means He came from heaven to earth in what is known as the incarnation. He was tempted (because He was human) but He never lost the divine. He was, is and always will be God. If He is God He cannot sin. He is holy. The fact that God is omnipotent does not negate His holiness.
     
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    I never said it negated his holiness. Read my post again very carefully. His omnipotence means he is certainly able to do whatever he wishes, and we have no right to judge his rightness nor his wrongness.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  9. Bill Brown

    Bill Brown
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joe, I understand what you wrote but if God did violate His character He would cease to be holy. He would go against His word. What you seem to be suggesting is that God really is not immutable? Not accusing...just asking?
     
  10. Calvibaptist

    Calvibaptist
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    892
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bill, Joe, and Andy:

    I think you are all saying the same thing. Let me string it together.

    1) God is omnipotent (God can do anything He wants)
    2) God is holy (God only wants holiness)
    3) God (Father, Jesus, HS) can't do what is unholy because He doesn't want to. It goes against His very nature.
     
  11. Bill Brown

    Bill Brown
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, that is not what Joe is saying, and I quote:

     
  12. Calvibaptist

    Calvibaptist
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    892
    Likes Received:
    0
    But, Bill, Jesus does not wish (desire) to sin, therefore He can't. That is why he said it was hypothetical.
     
  13. genesis12

    genesis12
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Messages:
    799
    Likes Received:
    1
    What a ridiculous question. Like most of what goes on in these forums, we set ourselves up as judge, jury, and executioner of what God did, is doing, and will do, whether in the person of the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit. Think about it.
     
  14. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would not, however, say that he can't...rather that he won't because he does not desire to sin.

    I have a great problem with placing any limits whatsoever on the omnipotent God.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  15. Calvibaptist

    Calvibaptist
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    892
    Likes Received:
    0
    The point being that we are trying to understand the God who has revealed Himself in Scripture. Nothing about this is ridiculous unless you are arguing just for the sake of argument. To discover more of God is the point of our existence and the greatest task to which we could set ourselves.
     
  16. Calvibaptist

    Calvibaptist
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    892
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would not, however, say that he can't...rather that he won't because he does not desire to sin.

    I have a great problem with placing any limits whatsoever on the omnipotent God.

    Joseph Botwinick
    </font>[/QUOTE]You're losing me a little, Joe. Omnipotence is theologically defined as God being able to do anything in conjuntion with His character. God cannot lie - the Bible says so. So there is at least one thing God can't do. The reason He can't lie is because His character is truth. God cannot go against His character. Nor does He want to. For God to be able to sin would make Him less that the thrice-Holy God.
     
  17. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    Calvibaptist,

    I am wondering where you got your definition. Here is what I found as being the definition of omnipotence:

    Omnipotence

    Having no limits to what he could do does not take away from his holiness. As a matter of fact, it adds to it in my eyes, because although he has the power to do anything he wishes, he chooses not to. He is all powerful and holy.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  18. Bill Brown

    Bill Brown
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    I mean no disrespect to Joe, but it is a hypothetical that has not grounds in any reality (real or theoretical). God cannot sin. Jesus is God. Jesus cannot sin. Honestly, the case is closed. It is like asking, "Can God make a rock that He cannot move?"
     
  19. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bill,

    With that statement, you have denied the omnipotence of God. That is not a road I am ready to go down. There is nothing my God can't do. There are some things he won't do, like sin. His choice not to sin, however, does not negate his ability to, if he ever wished to. I just don't believe he ever would, which makes him, IMO, more holy than a god who is not able to sin. Just because you say so doesn't mean the case is closed. You are not the final authority of faith and doctrine...the last I heard, according to Reformed Doctrine, Scripture holds that title. You have quoted above several scripture passages which point to God's sovereign choice to not sin...but not one of them say anything about God's lack of ability to sin. If you produce one, I will change my mind.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  20. Bill Brown

    Bill Brown
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joe - we're just not going to see eye to eye. Do I believe God is omnipotent? Yes! A thousand times yes. But I as I read and study God's word I have yet to see where God can act contray to His character.

    We're going to have to agree to disagree.

    Oh, and I when I say "case closed" it just communicates my resolve on the matter. In no way am I suggesting that your dissent is not valid or without merit. I just disagree vehemently. You know how on some topics there is no middle ground? If we were discussing the diety of Jesus Christ there would be no happy medium. There is only one right answer. I feel just that strongly over this issue. I am not impuning you by any means and if it seemed that way please accept my explanation.
     

Share This Page

Loading...