Pope John Paul II and the Fatima Visions

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Monergist, Apr 7, 2005.

  1. Monergist

    Monergist
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    Link to article: Pope John Paul II and the Fatima Visions by Gary Demar

    A partial quote:
     
  2. Ps104_33

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    Maybe he had a little too much communion wine that night. Its just more Roman Catholic superstition.
     
  3. BobRyan

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    Well I for one am convinced.
     
  4. BobRyan

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    There are some texts saying that the 3rd secret of Fatima has been released - and is 40 pages in length.

    Has anyone actually seen this published or is it still being kept from the public?
     
  5. mioque

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    Here is the Dutch translation of the full text of all the 3 secrets of Fatima as penned by Lucia Dos santos.
    http://www.katholieknieuwsblad.nl/actueel/kn1740c.htm

    All of it together is barely one page long.

    Below is the full text of the 3rd secret in English.

    "I write in obedience to you, my God, who commands me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your most Holy Mother and mine.

    After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an angel with a flaming sword in his left hand. Flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire.

    But they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand.

    Pointing to the earth with his right hand, the angel cried out in a loud voice: "Penance, penance, penance!"

    And we saw in an immense light that is God, something similar to how people appear in a mirror when then pass in front of it, a bishop dressed in white.

    We had the impression that it was the Holy Father.

    Other bishops, priests, religious men and women were going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark.

    Before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way.

    Having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the bishops, priests, religious men and women, and various lay people of different ranks and positions.

    Beneath the two arms of the cross there were two angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God."
     
  6. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    Well, if anyone sees a vision that is given them by Mary, I am pretty sure it's not from God.

    #1 she is dead. #2 God told people in the old testament not to have anything to do with dead people. Don't try to talk to the dead etc.

    Peace,

    Tam
     
  7. mioque

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    Interesting bit of trivia.
    It's official RC dogma that she is not dead.
    She died, rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven.
    The only time ever that a pope made an infallible statement was to make that official.
     
  8. Living4Him

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    Well, I guess Jesus shouldn't have been talking to Moses and Elijah at the transfiguration, since they were "dead"

    In the OT, God is talking about calling up the dead spirits. That is different from a "dead" person coming to those on earth without being conjured up.
     
  9. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    I would expect nothing less from you, Livivng4him!

    Isaah 8-1919 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
    20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.


    should not a people seek unto their God?

    Wouldn't it be better if we just talk to God? Why do we need visions of dead people.

    I think the only vision I would believe is one from Jesus!!

    if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

    Selah,

    Tam
     
  10. BobRyan

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    Well its another interesting bit of trivia that for non-Catholics the argument the RCC makes for this is contrary to scripture.

    The RCC claims that SINCE Mary is sinless like Christ - THEN LIKE CHRIST her body should NOT have been subject to decay - but LIKE CHRIST she should have been raised and then assumed into heaven!!

    A pretty compelling argument IF you can swallow that first unbiblical point!!

    (I am sure Mioque had not intent to leave out such a minor detail)

    Also HISTORICALLY we DO have documents about Christ being raised from the dead and Lydia and Jarius' daughter and "please bring my coat and books with you when you come to see me"..... but surprisingly "NO MENTION of the QUEEN of the UNIVERSE being raised from the deand and assumed into heaven!!""

    How ... unnexpected.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. BobRyan

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    I hate to admit it == but L4H has a logical argument here.

    IF I could swallow the "living dead" Idea that most people accept today -- upon which L4H's view of Matt 17 is based - then the argument makes good sense.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. mioque

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    What minor detail?

    That you overestimated the length of the 3rd secret of Fatima by 39 pages?
     
  13. BobRyan

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    "I overestimated"???

    Do you have a "detail" to support that idea?

    Or is this just "more of the same"?
     
  14. BobRyan

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    As in the case of the RCC's authorship of the Vicarius Filii Dei title AND its recent published statement on the Pope as "The representative of the Son of God" (vicarius filii dei) -- being blamed on non-Catholic as IF they authored it...

    Mioque appears to now blame me for authoring the following...

    http://www.marianland.com/thirdsec-presentation.html

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. mioque

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    Bob said:
    "There are some texts saying that the 3rd secret of Fatima has been released - and is 40 pages in length."
    "
    full text of the 3rd secret in English.

    "I write in obedience to you, my God, who commands me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your most Holy Mother and mine.
    After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an angel with a flaming sword in his left hand. Flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire.
    But they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand.
    Pointing to the earth with his right hand, the angel cried out in a loud voice: "Penance, penance, penance!"
    And we saw in an immense light that is God, something similar to how people appear in a mirror when then pass in front of it, a bishop dressed in white.
    We had the impression that it was the Holy Father.
    Other bishops, priests, religious men and women were going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark.
    Before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way.
    Having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the bishops, priests, religious men and women, and various lay people of different ranks and positions.
    Beneath the two arms of the cross there were two angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God."
     
  16. BobRyan

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    And so "indeed" there are some documents that say that ..

    I was just asking if the full text was published. I did not assert that the claim is correct nor did I give a detailed review of what the 40 pages consist of.

    (Just a "detail" to be overlooked by some.)
     
  17. mioque

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    Bob
    You need learn your sources a bit more carefully. The Vatican presented a 40 page document about the message of Fatima, containing the 3rd secret. The whole text of third secret is there below the introduction on the Marianland website you linked to.
     
  18. mioque

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    Anyway you got your answer, the whole third secret has been published.
     
  19. mioque

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    "As in the case of the RCC's authorship of the Vicarius Filii Dei title"
    "
    You mean that case where some SDA propagandists decided that the phrase Vicarius Filii Dei was an official papal title?
     
  20. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    I posted this:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    #1 she is dead. #2 God told people in the old testament not to have anything to do with dead people. Don't try to talk to the dead etc.


    Some thought this did not apply to the topic.

    So let me put it this way. If I see a vision of Mary, I will ask God to take it away in Jesus name!!!

    Selah,

    Tam
     

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