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Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by Zaac, Sep 11, 2013.
This is the conclusion of all noncalvinist thought.
Oh, ********!! I'm not a Calvinist and I have no problem rejecting such nonsense.You really need to get off the high horse. It's a long fall when he finally throws you.
That is not what the pope said. I would encourage everyone to read his actual words.
Ask most noncalvinists what happens to those who've never heard the Gospel.
Prove anyone never hears the gospel
And that's the other point. Shoulda said it myself, instead of jumping all over Aaron. Thanks for pointing that out, Rev.
According to most noncalvinists, infants don't hear the Gospel and can't exercise faith. Therefore, there is one class of person, according to most noncalvinists, that doesn't have to believe in God to get to Heaven.
That reasoning is extended to mentally retarded adults as well, so there's another class.
So, IF there were some tribe somewhere that never heard the Gospel, you would say they aren't accountable, and do not need faith to enter.
This is just wrong.
Here are his exact words from the article:
And nothing about that statement says Atheists go to heaven. All it asserts is that, if anything, God forgives those who come to him in a contrite heart for forgiveness. And more particularly, Atheists should adhere to their conscience as Paul said
What part of that isn't true, Ann? Does the sinner not have to be contrite in their approach to God? Is the sinner who seeks God not led by their conscience to do so? (Note to other members: I don't want any Calvinistic doctrine thrown at this comment because the Bible does not teach that man has no responsibility whatsoever, so don't even bother! This thread isn't about Calvinism so take it somewhere else.) And finally, Ann, is it not possible for a sinner to have guilt over that sin?
Essentially, these are the points Francis is making. He said absolutely nothing, as the title of the thread claims, about not needing to believe in God. That's a massive erroneous leap to a wrong conclusion, reading into what he said something that is not there.
Strange...I was thinking the pope sounded like you and the rest of hyper cal's.
Well, if a person obeys their conscience - and their conscience is wrong Biblically - it sounds like sin is not present according to the Pope. If one doesn't believe in Jesus for salvation, do they get a second chance after death? When are they repentant? They are either repentant for salvation (which I totally agree with) or they stand before the judgment throne and are repentant - which they will be - and they go to hell because they didn't believe when they had the chance. What is a "sincere and contrite heart"? You are either saved or you are not. A sincere and contrite heart will not save you if you are not trusting in the blood of Jesus for salvation.
Doesn't sound anything like that. In fact the Pope spoke about forgiving a person with a contrite heart who comes to God for forgiveness. Ie
and as conscience let me once again bring up Romans 2:14
It is clear then that there is a mechanism within the Human being non believer and believer alike that has an intuitive guide to wrong and right. Let me refer you to C.S. Lewis
If he speaks of one coming to Christ then yes, God forgives them.
What if they stand at the throne of judgment after denying God all their lives and now suddenly are standing there saying "I'm sorry!! I'm so sorry!!!!"??
Sounds like his eminence has not been to total depravity of man class lately. All of us need to review our depravity often. It helps us to realize the totality of God's Grace.
"All have sinned and come short of God's Glory"
"Salvation is of The Lord"
Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
I think that after a life of denying God there will be no contrition for a sinful life after that persons death.
The Catholic Church teaches quite clearly what happens in that case (as does the bible)
In today's language...Christ tells you that your SOL.
I've identifed two classes of man which, according to noncalvinists, may enter Heaven without faith in Christ.
And now they're arguing that the remaining classes merely need sincerity to do so.
And if I may depart from the OP for a moment...If I evaluate my own life's 32 years as a Roman Catholic, I have to state that sin was embraced as a reality to human nature & so it was the works that were emphasized as the redeeming grace...you had to act...you had to do something to further the kingdom. I have seen allot of puffs masquerading as priests...but ive also seen some really serious men who were masculine and served as priests...who would walk the streets helping people (every day). Conversely as a non-catholic over 25 years now I have only observed one pastor (a PC- USA) guy who went out...take that back....two Presbyterians who went out to people. In scripture John 20 : 27. Have we forgotten.