Pornography and "Strongholds"

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Ars, Oct 12, 2001.

  1. Ars

    Ars
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    The term "stronghold", as far as I can tell, is nowhere in the Bible. It is a new age way term intended to take the blame off of man's deceitful, wicked nature and shift all the blame onto Satan. He doesn't make us do anything, he may whisper into our ear, but ultimately, we are the ones who make that decision. Yes, it is true that we wrestle against the powers of darkness, but he cannot rule our lives.

    I do not believe pornography is an addiction along the same lines as smoking, alcohol or drugs. Smoking, alcohol or drugs all have chemicals in them that cause the body to crave it when it does not have it. (Alcohol to a lesser degree.) Pornography is fully involved in man's wicked nature. The psychologists of today have made people believe that it isn't their fault, but it is society. New age "Christians" have made people believe today that it isn't their fault, but is is Satan. If you are truly saved, and you are truly repentant, then you will turn away from it. Yes, from time to time, you may falter, stumble etc., but you will NOT continue to live in the sin. Like another popular topic on the board lately, pornography is a choice you make. You can choose to live that way, or you can take it to the Lord.
     
  2. Lorelei

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    Amen!

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>James 1:13
    When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
    14
    but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
    15
    Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    ~Lorelei
     
  3. Kathy

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    WoW Lorelei! Those are powerful verses! Not that the entire Bible isn't powerful, it's sharper than any two-edged sword! But wow that really makes you take a good hard look at yourself and brings you to the realization that we cannot blame or give credit to Satan when we CHOOSE to allow something to become sin in our lives! OUCH, I need a band-aid from that boo boo! Thanks for the spanking gracious, merciful, heavenly Father! At least I know He loves me, otherwise he would not chasten me. Praise the Lord! Am I babbling?

    Kathy
    &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
  4. Ransom

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    Dajuid said:

    The term "stronghold", as far as I can tell, is nowhere in the Bible.

    On the contrary:

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ . . . (2 Cor. 10:3-5)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The problem is not with the terminology, but the application; Paul is speaking of overcoming worldly ways of thinking with the Word of God, but "intercessor" types and other Charismatics have taken these verses and built up a demonology around "territorial spirits" that need to be pulled from their "strongholds."

    From what I have seen of such practices, both first- and secondhand, such people tend to overemphasize the casting down of the "strongholds" (e.g. praying to rid the neighbourhood of adult video stores, drug dealers, and so forth), but they forget that the root of the problem is the enslavement of those "strongholds'" clientele to their sinful appetites. The city needs less prayer walks, and more proclamation of the Gospel.

    [ October 12, 2001: Message edited by: Ransom ]
     
  5. Brother Adam

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    Being someone who struggles in this area I can say that Satan is definitely NOT innocent. He is the tempter. Yes we do make the decision to watch or not to watch.

    It very easily gets to the point where it becomes more than a decision. Suddenly prayer, accountability, and other means of intercession become necessary.

    Sexual immorality does affect the body physically. Even some of the same chemicals that are affected by drinking and other drugs. It becomes something that is desired because it gives us a chemical high. If it wasn't pleasurable then it wouldn't be a problem.

    Satan does not have a stronghold in us as Christians, but if we allow him he can sure destroy our spiritual life.

    Until Next Post, Adam
     
  6. Aaron

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    Sue, you're right. Hell has frozen over!! :D I agree completely with Ransom!! :eek:

    Lorelei,


    Look closely at verse 14 in the passage you quoted. Yes, it is his own evil desire, yet not his but that of the sin that dwells in him, Romans 7:14-24, and he is dragged away. He doesn't go to the sin leaping and skipping. He is enslaved.
     
  7. Ars

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    I apologize for the misunderstanding. I never intended it to sound like I was saying Satan was innocent. I only meant was that people have a tendency to give Satan more credit than is his due. Yes, he tempts us, he whispers lies into our ears, he lies, connives etc. He is most definitely NOT innocent. However, he isn't the one that turns on the computer, goes to the url in question. He doesn't make us drive to the corner porn shop etc.

    Ransom, I apologize for my error. And, yes, I see what you mean and agree with your statement regarding: "The problem is not with the terminology, but the application..." As a good friend pointed out to me recently. (You know who your are. ;) ) We must understand that there is truly only one strong hold in our life.

    The Lord is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in Him.
    Nahum 1:7
     
  8. Dr. Bob

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    Observation: Part of the problem with modern man is his unwillingness to take any blame or responsibility for his own actions. Talk with Slick if you have questions about that.

    My sinful nature gets me into lots of trouble. It would be nice to blame them on Satan (who can only be in one place at one time and I don't think he even knows my name since he's so busy with Osama) or on demons. Frank Perotti (sp?) wrote some fiction that many have been duped into thinking is based in reality.

    Blame game. Jesus said that we must contend with the world, the flesh and the devil. Between the alurement of the kosmos and the sin nature with which I am constantly fighting, don't think I can justify blaming satan for any of this.
     
  9. Lorelei

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kathy:
    WoW Lorelei! Those are powerful verses! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Kathy,
    I thought the same thing! Smacked me in the face! *hehe* Had to say you had me laughing with that one! Thanks for the spanking indeed! *hehe*

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron:
    Lorelei,
    Look closely at verse 14 in the passage you quoted. Yes, it is his own evil desire, yet not his but that of the sin that dwells in him, Romans 7:14-24, and he is dragged away. He doesn't go to the sin leaping and skipping. He is enslaved.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Aaron,

    He is enslaved to his sinful nature, yes. Not to Satan.

    Notice too that he is "dragged away and enticed" but has not yet sinned. It is when that "enticement" then causes the "desire to conceive" that it becomes sin. The thought, the "enticement" that has dragged him away does not become "sin" until he does something with it. It is his choice to follow the enticement or follow God's Word. Whether to walk in the Spirit or the flesh.

    Our sinful nature is there always wanting to please the flesh. Satan's role is that the filth is there IF we want to buy into it, but God is greater still and if we don't want that temptation to seize us we can turn to Him and he will provide a way to deal with it!

    ~Lorelei

    [ October 13, 2001: Message edited by: Lorelei ]
     
  10. myreflection26

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    While we can't "blame" satan for our clear choice to sin, when we do sin and that door is open Satan will take advantage of that oppertunity.

    No, satan does not force us to turn the computer on and certainly doesn't force us to drive to the video store to get a porn flick, however he will keep us in darkness and provide us with excuses that we "need" this stuff to help our intimacy. The only power Satan has over us is in the lies he decieves us with but when those lies are exposed and destroyed with the truth it is a much different story.

    Can someone help me here? There is a scripture in the bible can't remember where it is found but it says Satan comes as an angel of light decieving many. This doesn't mean we don't have a sinful nature, it means our sinful nature has taken a deeper level of darkness.


    Pornography is an addiction same as smoking, or alcolholism. Yes, chemically speaking pornography is not injecting our bodies with harmful substances that could end up in physical death, but it's just as dangerous spiritually and to the family structure and definately just as addicting.

    The reason it is a "stronghold" as I normally put it is because it does feed into our physical desires and if you ask a lot of rapest and those in prison for gross sexual acts of violence, you will find that though they had a choice to make, that choice increasingly became harder and harder to face until it became a "normal" way of life for them and the more they saw the more they wanted or needed and just regular porn wasn't enough for them they had to have something else worse and deeper. This is a stronghold because once an individual gets to that point they do anything to have what they want and it doesn't matter who gets hurt in the process including their wives, husband's or children and they are totally blinded and can't see why they are wrong, or they know they are wrong and just plain out don't care because the porn means more to them than anything.

    I have lived thru this, when this issue in my marriage got to the point of my husband actually denying me intimacy and restorting to belittling me verbally God provided a deeper understanding for me because I was literally at the end of my rope and when I spoke to my husband and looked into his eyes, I can testify that it definately was not my husband. My husband looks back on those days now and says I can't believe I hurt you, my best friend, the way I did. He had a choice, he made a very bad choice but Satan created more in him making that choice a deeper and harder decision to make each time. Satan knows our weaknessess, he's not ******.

    Sue
     
  11. Aaron

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    This can't be the same Sue from the music forum!!

    You are absolutely right :eek: in your post above, and the Scripture you are looking for is 2 Corinthians 11:14.
     
  12. Lorelei

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    Sue,

    Are you aware that this is a Baptist only forum? I thought that was brought up in the Halloween thread. I will respond to your post but you should really start a thread in one of the free for all forums if you want to continue to discuss this topic.

    I also wonder why you are insisting that satan does have such an important role in this when in the Halloween forum you are insisting that we have no need to fear satan. Should we fear him and his "strong holds" or can satan do no more then we allow him to do?


    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by myreflection26:
    While we can't "blame" satan for our clear choice to sin, when we do sin and that door is open Satan will take advantage of that oppertunity. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It is our clear choice, but when we do sin...then we sinned. The opportunity is there for satan to sit back and let us continue in that sin. He doesn't need to do anything.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by myreflection26:

    No, satan ... will keep us in darkness and provide us with excuses that we "need" this stuff to help our intimacy. The only power Satan has over us is in the lies he decieves us with but when those lies are exposed and destroyed with the truth it is a much different story.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It is still our choice to believe those "excuses" (that we make up ourselves) or to follow that Truth. The Truth is in the Word and if we know the Lord then we know the Truth. If we stray from that it is because we are tempted by our own evil desire.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by myreflection26:

    Can someone help me here? There is a scripture in the bible can't remember where it is found but it says Satan comes as an angel of light decieving many. This doesn't mean we don't have a sinful nature, it means our sinful nature has taken a deeper level of darkness.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You should be familiar with this verse, Chet and I have shared it with you many times.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>2 Corinthians 11:13
    For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
    14
    And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
    15
    It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    So you are saying that an addiction to pornography is Satan's way as masquearading as an angel of light? What is a "deeper level of darkness"???

    In these verses Paul explains that satan is leading people astray by fooling them into believing false doctrines. Satan does this by making you "think" you are doing what God wants when in reality you are fooled. That is what these verses are referring to.

    I bet that even those addicted to pornography would not say that they considered thier addiction "righteous".

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by myreflection26:

    Pornography is an addiction same as smoking, or alcolholism.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They are all sins, just as anything else. They all have problems that are caused because they derive from sin. Sin can be taken to the Cross, sin can be forgiven and sin can be overcome through the strength of our Lord Jesus Christ. I overcame smoking by the grace of God and God alone. Satan never made me light up, I did. I wanted that cigarette. Sure I couldn't quit when I wanted to, but I could quit when I gave it to God. The same with pornography. I shared in another thread how I overcame my battle with lust. http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000456
    Sure, Satan has it out there and available and shoves it in our face to tempt us, but if you are in the Word, if you follow the Lord it is easy to overcome.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by myreflection26:

    The reason it is a "stronghold" as I normally put it is because it does feed into our physical desires and if you ask a lot of rapest and those in prison for gross sexual acts of violence, you will find that though they had a choice to make, that choice increasingly became harder and harder to face until it became a "normal" way of life for them and the more they saw the more they wanted or needed and just regular porn wasn't enough for them they had to have something else worse and deeper.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    My former Sunday School Teacher, who was in law enforcement and is now a judge used to offer self defense and awareness courses for women. According to him and many other things I have read, what you say is not true.

    A rapist doesn't rape because after looking at so much porn he wants more. To the rapist his desire is "control" not lust. It's not about sex, it is all about control.


    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by myreflection26:

    This is a stronghold because once an individual gets to that point they do anything to have what they want and it doesn't matter who gets hurt in the process including their wives, husband's or children and they are totally blinded and can't see why they are wrong, or they know they are wrong and just plain out don't care because the porn means more to them than anything.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yes, thier sin does have a strong hold on them, but it was by thier own desires that they got to that place. By placing the blame we are moving the guilt from us to Satan.

    If you want to overcome, if you want to get out of this "stronghold" we are told what to do.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
    1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Philippians 4:6
    Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.
    7
    And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Let's see how Satan fits into all of this.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
    James 4:7
    Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The word is resist, not rebuke. All it takes to get rid of the devil is to resist him. That doesn't sound like that strong of a hold to me.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by myreflection26:
    Satan knows our weaknessess<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    How does he know them?


    I have "lived" this as well, I just don't wish to share or recollect it, but yes, it played a major role in my divorce. I am not saying that pornography is not something that is bad and can not be harmful, indeed it can! But I would hardly give Satan all the credit.

    My husband made an observation the other day. My husband said he thinks most men are so demanding and so infatuated with sex because they spend too much time in front of the tv looking at half naked women all day. (We don't watch much tv) You see, porn is the next step up. We, as a society allow so much that should be porn to be acceptable, and all it does is "wet" the appetite so to speak for people to want more. Our problem isn't Satan, it's US! We feed the fire!

    Then as Christians, porn is extremely taboo, that we can't even discuss it, so those who struggle with it really have no one to turn to for advice. There is only one way to overcome it and that is to stay far away from it and stay focused on the Lord! But how can you stay away if during any given day (even during commercials) you see more "skin" on the women on the tv then you do your wife for most of the day!

    The problem isn't satan, it's where your heart and mind are!

    How do we overcome? Not by rebuking satan, not by praying the devil away but by this.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Philippians 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If your heart and mind are here, then there is nothing satan can do to interfere. But if you heart and mind are not, then you and you alone are to blame. If someone is into porn, then they need God, not some lecture on satans hold on them. Show them the light to get them out of the darkness!

    ~Lorelei

    [ October 15, 2001: Message edited by: Lorelei ]
     
  13. KeeperOfMyHome

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    Sue, you have previously stated that you are not a Baptist, nor do you attend a Baptist church. You repeatedly post in the Baptist forums though you have been asked not to do so.

    Please refrain from further postings on this board except for the Free For All Forums. There are several categories that I'm sure will interest you, including a General Forum in which you may post to your heart's delight.

    Seeing as how you are not a Baptist, I do not understand why you insist on continuing to post here. Unless, of course, you are out to prove us all wrong. This Baptist Board is present to give Baptists an opportunity to fellowship one with another.
     
  14. KeeperOfMyHome

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    Satan cannot do that which we do allow him to accomplish in our lives. The difference between a saved person and a lost person is this: one cannot help but sin as it is his nature, and the other has the power to overcome sin because he has the Spirit of truth living within. The latter has a choice of walking about the lust of the flesh and eyes, or walking after the Spirit that lives in them.

    Truly tis easier (read: the lazy way . . . takes no effort!) to follow the lusts of the flesh, but it is also the way of destruction. It takes effort to be able to overcome that which would destroy. We must pray without ceasing and we must be filled with His Holy word.

    I've been reading Psalm 119! I think that this would benefit you.

    (Psa 119:10 KJV) With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments.

    (Psa 119:11 KJV) Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

    (Psa 119:12 KJV) Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes.
     
  15. myreflection26

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    If anyone wishes to discuss this issue with me please go to the free for all forumsthis way I can respond. I realize it's a pain to have to go to another thread to discuss this but, that's out of my control.

    Thanks

    Sue
     
  16. Manstrom

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    I must agree with the statement that to sin is a choice. I too smoked for 40 years and praise God, I was able to quit 3 1/2 months ago. I quit drinking alcohol in 1994 after drinking alcoholicly for 30 years. I am washed in the Blood of the Lamb and now realize that despite what AA teaches, the act of drinking is not the result of a "disease" I suffer from but is sin which I chose to do. I chose it and I enjoyed it. I am so ashamed to admit it but that is the truth. When it finally dawned upon me what Jesus Christ truly did for me, it drove me to my knees in repentance. Keep posting these wonderful spirit filled thoughts. They are inspiring and when scripture is included, they are spirit feeding.

    Agape,

    Mike :D :D
     
  17. Aaron

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    Manstrom,

    If it was your choice, then don't praise Jesus, praise yourself! ;)
     
  18. Lorelei

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    Manstrom,

    Praise the Lord! I know the power of that freedom as well, through the Blood of the Lamb indeed! Thanks for sharing! [​IMG]

    Aaron,

    It was his choice to sin. He is praising the Lord for the freedom from that sin, not for choosing to sin!
     
  19. Lorelei

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    The whole concept of stronghold is something I am quite familiar with. It really wasn't until the last few years that I began to realize how little power Satan really has. I grew up with the Excorist and the Amittyville Horror movies and that is where I learned how scary the devil can be! Even after becoming saved I still feared him.

    I don't know, I am still a little confused as to where that line is drawn, etc, but I do know that once we are saved we can not be overtaken by Satan any longer, at least not against our will. That is what I am trying to say...I think!

    So yes, Satan has a role in pornography, but for the believer there is no excuse or blaming it on Satan. You either walk in the Spirit or don't. Maybe it's different for the lost.

    ~Lorelei
     
  20. Manstrom

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron:
    Manstrom,

    If it was your choice, then don't praise Jesus, praise yourself! ;)
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    HUH? I think I missed something here. I will praise Jesus with my last breath. He is my first thought in the morning and my last thought at night.

    Mike
     

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