Practical Sanctfication

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by NaasPreacher (C4K), Oct 23, 2003.

  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Most of us would agree that we are positionally sanctifed at salvation. What about practical sanctifcation? Progressive? Instantaneous? Work of man? Gift of God? Work of the Holy Spirit? Can we be completely sanctified while still alive? Is it "victorious Christian living" and available by an act of faith? Any other thougths?
     
  2. superdave

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    Progressive, from God, through the Spirit.

    Paul's teachings on the old and new man really light up the truth about our struggle to "walk in newness of life"

    It is as much a work of God as our Salvation

    Eph 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love"

    2Th 2:13 "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth"

    1Pe 1:2 "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."

    1Th 4:7 "For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness."

    The scriptures are pretty clear that our salvation and sanctification come from God, they are not anything that we can work up under our own strength. When you talk about election, its not an insurance policy to keep you out of Hell, its a calling to walk in a life that is becoming closer and more like Christ. If that is not happening, than you also have to question if there has really been a change in your heart. Some people live their whole lives in church, and everything they do there is for their own fleshly motives. That is useless. Can you say that over the course of time, you are more like Christ than you were a year ago, or two years ago, whatever timeframe you want to put there. It should be an upward trend. Obviously, everyone has valley experiences, but the trend overall should be up. This is not "hard-believism" it is really more about being realistic about what people are truly committed to. A person who is out of step with the Spirit, but is saved, will be miserable. If they are not, you have to wonder what is going on, and if they ever truly possessed the Holy Spirit in the first place.
     
  3. Trotter

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    No one can be completely sanctified in this life.

    As long as we are present in our fleshly bodies, sin will remain. It really irks me when I run into someone who is "above sin." Makes want to just walk up and nail them in the nose so I can see their "righteous indignation" as they try to beat the snot out of me.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    I raise this question because of a re-birth of Keswick theolgy stating that the "Victorious Christian Life" is possible simply by an act of faith, identical to the way one was saved.

    Another question - what is practical sanctifcation? Is it a "victory?" Or is it simple obedience to the Holy Spirit as revealed in His Word?
     
  5. IfbReformer

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    I will answer your question with a quote from an article I recently wrote for my website:

    The full article can be found at http://www.ifbreformation.org/Assurance_What_Is_The_Gospel.html

    Hope this helps.

    IFBReformer
     
  6. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Thanks for the insight. I would only differ in what is probably semantics. I believe that the Born Again Christian only has one nature for the old man was crucified with Christ. The new man, created in Christ Jesus, must contend with his flesh. Practical sanctfication is only possible, as you mentioned, to those who are positionally sanctfied by Christ as salvation. Ths conflict is how the new man lives his life today. He can choose to live after the flesh or the Spirit. As he chooses to live after the Spirit in obedience he continues in the sanctfication process.
     
  7. superdave

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    That is obviously a point of some contention, since there are many view's on the old and new man.

    Paul speaking to Christians in Ephesus does tell them to put on the new man. How than would they already have it? It is a fascinating topic, I will come back and post some verses when I have more time, we have been studying this recently at Church.

    Basically I believe the differences are as you said, Semantics for the most part.

    You have to remember that the Flesh is not gone, we still have a human fleshly nature that tends to be hostile towards God, that is clear in Paul's teachings, at the same time, being saved, we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, who is doing the work of Sanctification.
     
  8. Daniel David

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    Doesn't Paul also tell us to put on Christ?

    Romans 7 can hardly be used as support. There is no real consensus on who Paul is talking about. Well, actually, he was talking about a lost person. Christians aren't carnal, ever.
     
  9. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Can you share with us any Bible evidence that Christians are never carnal? The believers in Corinth were.
     
  10. Daniel David

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    Just do a reading of Romans 8:1-15. If your nature is carnal, you are lost.

    The believers in Corinth were IMMATURE. They were not carnal. Paul said he had to talk to them as though they were carnal. In other words, they had not matured enough to be able to talk to them like people that could grasp deep truth. He had to start all over with them.
     
  11. Caretaker

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    Drew Montgomery

    BIBL 350
    10/19/1998
    GLA 10.1

    New Scofield Reference Bible Drill #2


    Fine Refinement – Justification

    I. What is Justification
    A. Reconciling man to God - Romans 5:1,9

    II. The Need For Justification
    A. Unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God – 1 Cor. 6:11
    B. All are condemned under the Law – Gal. 5:4, Rom. 2:13, Rom. 3:26

    III. Who Justifies
    A. Jesus is the Justifier – Rom. 3:26
    1. Christ was raised for our Justification – Rom. 4:25
    2. Through the redemption in Christ – Rom. 3:24

    IV. Who is Justified
    A. Believers
    1. Believers are justified – 1 Cor. 6:11
    2. God: predestines, calls, justifies – Rom. 8:30,33
    3. Both Jew and Gentile – Rom. 3:28
    V. Methods of Justification
    A. Through the grace of God
    1. By the grace of God – Rom. 5:16,18
    2. Justified by his grace – Titus 3:7, Rom. 3:4, 20, 24
    B. By faith
    1. Man justified by faith – Rom. 3:28, Gal. 2:16, Gal. 3:8,11
    2. Justification requires belief – Acts 13:39

    VI. Results of Justification
    A. Reconciliation with God
    1. Believer no longer stands charged – Rom. 8:30,33
    2. Saved from wrath – Rom. 5:1,9
    B. Believers are purified
    1. Believers are washed, sanctified, justified
    in the name of the Lord Jesus – 1 Cor. 6:11

    VII. Requirements of Justification
    A. Belief
    1. Justification requires belief - Acts 13:39
    2. Belief is imputed for righteousness – Rom. 4:25
    3. Justified through faith – Gal. 3:8,11
    4. Not by law but faith in Christ – Gal. 2:16
    B. We are to be faithful stewards – 1 Cor. 4:4
    C. To have faith with works – Jas. 2:21,25
    D. To be humble and confess our sins – Luke 18:14

    VIII. Conclusion
    A. Unrighteousness shall not inherit the kingdom of God – 1 Cor. 6:9-11
    B. By one man judgement came, by one justification and grace abounded – Rom.
    5:16,18


    Drew Montgomery

    BIBL 350
    October 20, 1998
    GLA 10.1

    New Scofield Reference Bible Drill #2


    Presentation – Justification

    Romans 5:1,9 “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:” “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.” Man’s legal standing with Heaven is one of condemnation, and worthy of the righteous wrath of almighty God. Romans 3:23 “ For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God;”

    Justification is the act of God whereby He accepts the blood of Christ as the complete and satisfying sacrifice for all human sin, propitiation, thus changing our legal status and establishing a means of reconciliation with man.

    Believers are justified by the grace of God through faith. Titus 3:7 “That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” Romans 3:28 “ Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”

    We see that the status of man is changed from that of the condemned to that of an heir, one who is able to inherit. Thus man is reconciled to God through the propitiation of Jesus Christ and restored to full legal righteous standing.


    Drew D. Montgomery
    BIBL 350
    12-14-98
    GLA-15.1
    Concordance Drill #3

    Sanctification

    The word sanctification means to be set apart. The Holy Spirit is endeavoring to make the believer holy (set apart from the world), and spiritual (set apart to reflect the character of God). This is being accomplished in four phases.

    First, the believer at conversion in receiving Christ, is set apart from sin (forgiven) and set apart to Christ, this is preparational sanctification. Matt. 23:19 “Ye fools and blind; for which is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift.”

    Second, the believer is set apart from the worldly realm and is set apart to the Heavenly realm, this is positional sanctification. John 17:21 “That they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”

    The third form of sanctification sets apart the believer from the “old man” (sin nature), to the “new man” (thirst after righteousness). This is practical sanctification. 1Thess. 5:23 “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

    The fourth form of sanctification sets apart from the stain of sin and sets us apart to be presented pure and without blemish before the judgment seat of Christ. This is prospective sanctification. Eph. 5:27 “That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.


    __________________
    A Servant of Christ,
    Drew

    Create in me a clean heart,
    O God; and renew a right
     
  12. HankD

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    1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
    2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
    3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
    4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

    "ye are yet carnal"...

    They were displaying the worst sin possible for the Christian which Paul addresses later, they had not love for one another shown by the envy, strife and divisions among themselves.

    10 but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away...
    13 But now abideth faith, hope, love, these three; and the greatest of these is love.

    12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

    To me perfect sanctification is the love of/from the Father dominating my life, everything else is a "tinkling cymbal".

    Will there still be some sin in my life? Yes, but it will not rule over me and I will be cooperating with the Spirit of God through His Word to unroot it.

    HankD
     
  13. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Thanks Hank for quoting the Corithians passage for me. There are indeed carnal Christians.

    I do not think, however, that my sanctification will be perfect until I meet Christ and this flesh life is over. Until then the flesh will always be crying out for attention and vying with the spirit.
     
  14. HankD

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    True. Perfection does not mean perfectly sinless else why 1 John 1:9 written in present tense.

    HankD
     
  15. Daniel David

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    1 Corinthians 3:1-3 NASB

    1. And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
    2. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
    3. for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

    Again, Paul has already said for that he can't talk to them as though there were spiritual, he has to talk about them as infants.

    There actions were patterned after carnal people. Their nature though was NOT carnal.

    Romans 8:6-9 NASB
    6. For the mind set on the flesh is death , but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
    7. because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God ; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
    8. and those who are in the flesh cannot please God .
    9. However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

    Note that Paul contrasts those who have the Spirit versus those who are in the flesh. According to Paul, those who are carnal are lost. Case closed.
     
  16. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Why then are believers instructed to walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit? If it were not possible for a believer to walk after the flesh the instruction would not be needed.
     
  17. Daniel David

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    I quoted two passages. Feel free to exegete them and we will compare notes. If you just throw out ideas that you have not thought through, I wonder how much you want to actually know about the other position.

    A believer can and does sin, it isn't their NATURE to sin. In Romans 7, Paul says that he IS carnal, not just acts carnal.

    Consider also Galatians 5:24 NASB
    Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

    It isn't my job to doubt Paul. It is my job to understand him. All christians HAVE crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
     
  18. HankD

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    I disagree based upon the statement "ye are yet carnal". "are" is present tense, "carnal" is an adjective indicating a state of being. Paul here describes the Corinthians Christians as being "carnal", "ye are yet carnal".

    However,
    Romans 8 uses the term "in the flesh" as a place.
    So, yes to be "in the flesh" is a description of the place where the lost are positionally as opposed to "in the Spirit" or "in Christ".

    But a Christian can be described as "carnal" as Paul does in the Corinthians passage and that as a state of being.

    I believe we are involved with semantics here.

    For the Christian to continue on in a state of carnality will ultimately end in chastisement and/or death as some of the Corinthians whom Paul describes "For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep".

    If a Christian can sin then from whence does it come , certainly not the Spirit, what else is left but the flesh?

    believe what you will, I have no heart to dispute this matter.


    HankD
     
  19. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Sorry fellas, didn't mean to cause a fight here. Was simply trying to figure out if there was a real difference, or just semantics. We sounds like we all agree that postionally sanctfifed belivers will still sin as long as we live. Our new nature does not have the proclivity to sin,it is our choice after salvation. I do think that we must constantly battle the flesh. Will I choose to follow the flesh or the spirit? It does seem possible that belivers will choose to follow the flesh. I have made, and still make flesh based decisions in my life, but when I do that goes against my very nature. I think we are fighting a semantic battle and that was not my intention.
     
  20. IfbReformer

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    no real consensus on who Paul is talking about?

    It never ceases to amaze me how many times I hear this from some people who want to dismiss the reality of the struggle with sin in the life of a believer, they would just like to rip it out of the book of Romans - but there is that pesky "inerrant Word of God" thing that can't get around.

    Lets see who is "I" in Paul's statement:

    What part of "I" don't you understand? Paul is clearly speaking of himself and reality of the struggle with sin while he was in his mortal sin-cursed body.

    If you say the "I" here was not Paul, then I guess neither is the "I" here right?

    2 Timothy 4:7(NIV)
    "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith."

    You see your problem is that you cannot accept that the "I" of Romans 7 and the "I" of 2 Timothy 4:7 are the same person - but the english(and the underlying Greek) do not lie.

    So is there "no real consensus" among about who is speaking in Romans 7? Only those who wish to dismiss it because it does not fit their preconceived notions of perfectionism.

    Some may wish to lie to themselves and say they don't struggle with the flesh(and even loose to it every day) but Paul and other great men of God were honest enough to share the reality of that battle.

    1 John 1:10
    "If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives."

    No matter how much you want to, you cannot dismiss Romans chapter 7 because it does not fit you preconceived theological notions.

    IFBReformer
     

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