Prayer for Salvation

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by PackerBacker, Dec 3, 2001.

  1. PackerBacker

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    What happens if I as a missionary do not get a person to pray a "sinners prayer" to recieve salvation (Rom. 10: 9,10,13)? Have I left the "plan of salvation" only 3/4 of the way done?
     
  2. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PackerBacker:
    What happens if I as a missionary do not get a person to pray a "sinners prayer" to recieve salvation (Rom. 10: 9,10,13)? Have I left the "plan of salvation" only 3/4 of the way done?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No, not at all. The "Sinner's Prayer" has become the third Baptist Ordinance, and some believe that someone is not saved unless they have walked an aisle and "repeated after them". It is God who saves, not a prayer. The sinner's prayer has been a cause for many a false conversion, for many people put their faith in a prayer rather than the Savior.

    The missionary's duty is to proclaim the unchanging gospel of Christ, and God will turn the hearts to himself of his chosen.
     
  3. Brian

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    As a missionary your job is to spread the gospel. If you have done that and sowed the word you've done 100% of your job.
    Those who don't recite a prayer aren't your resopnsibility. First if they don't truly believe then a million sinners prayers won't save them. Second it's the Holy Spirit who convicts a person to salvation. That's one of His jobs, ours as Christians first and for most is to 'Go ye therefore...'
    William Fay has a good study of this in his Share Jesus without fear series of literature.
     
  4. John Wells

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    Chris, et al

    Romans 10:9-10 (ESV)
    because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

    This "confesses" with the "mouth" must include repenting from sin, trusting in Jesus for salvation, and submitting to Him as Lord. This is the volitional element of faith. While some would tie this to baptism, which is a public profession of faith, I believe Rom 10:10 is referring to confession to God.

    I will agree with you Chris that how it is often done leaves much to be desired, and as you stated, may be responsible for many false conversions. But clearly, a "confessional prayer" to God is a requirement of salvation.
     
  5. donnA

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    I believe that one purpose of the sinners prayer is to settle it in their mind. Being saved means turning from you old ways to God, accepting the salvation He has given, but it settles it in the mind of the person praying that now this has happened, they have a perticular point in time that they have done this. Not suree if I'm being very clear on what I mean to say. Sorry.
     
  6. Brian

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    Quite clear Katie.

    John in the verse you quoted when is the person saved? When they belive and are justified or when they open their mouth and speak?

    Not trying to be smart or anything but when is salvation at the believing or speaking?
     
  7. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Wells:
    But clearly, a "confessional prayer" to God is a requirement of salvation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    John -

    I disagree greatly. The only requirements of God's salvation are God's elect confessing him as Lord and Savior and believing upon him. Nowhere in Scripture does a person pray a prayer of public confession in order to receive salvation. The confessing of Romans 10.9ff is that Christ is Lord, and this is done between the sinner and God. For some reason, we stress the confess the Lord Jesus part over the believe in one's heart part. Scripture teaches repentance and belief as conditions of salvation.

    John 20:31 (ESV)
    but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

    Acts 2:38 (ESV)
    And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Acts 3:19 (ESV)
    Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out,
     
  8. ddavis

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    Chris:
    I disagree greatly. The only requirements of God's salvation are God's elect confessing him as Lord and Savior and believing upon him. Nowhere in Scripture does a person pray a prayer of public confession in order to receive salvation.

    Chris I would agree it doesn't have to be in public. My question is how do they "confess" by mouth or what?
     
  9. Chris Temple

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    The Gk word translated confess is homologeoµ; from homologos (of one mind); to speak the same, to agree.

    It is less an act of oral confession and more to be in agreement with Christ of who he is - Lord and Savior. This is why easy believism is false; one must believe Christ is who he says he is. MacArthur says on Rom 10:9:

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>10:9 confess … the Lord Jesus. Not a simple acknowledgment that He is God and the Lord of the universe, since even demons acknowledge that to be true (James 2:19). This is the deep personal conviction, without reservation, that Jesus is that person’s own master or sovereign. This phrase includes repenting from sin, trusting in Jesus for salvation, and submitting to Him as Lord. This is the volitional element of faith.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
     
  10. Dr. Bob

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    And always remember to put together ALL the NT teaching on salvation - it is NOT just "believing", but an equally-demanding requirement is "repentance".

    I believe that the person who 'walks the aisle' probably has already been regenerated by the Holy Spirit that compelled him to respond to the Gospel message. That, too, is a form of confession.

    And don't forget the next verse <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
     
  11. John Wells

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    Chris,

    In the very sentence where you disagree, you agree! I don’t know if you read what I wrote too quickly or what, but you bolded my quote which said ”confessional prayer” to God and then accused me of saying the confession had to be public, which I said no such thing. Did you read or miss this part: ” While some would tie this to baptism, which is a public profession of faith, I believe Rom 10:10 is referring to confession to God.”

    Chris: The confessing of Romans 10.9ff is that Christ is Lord, and this is done between the sinner and God.

    I agree which is exactly what I said that you disagreed with! :confused:
     
  12. donnA

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    Dr. Bob,
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I believe that the person who 'walks the aisle' probably has already been regenerated by the Holy Spirit that compelled him to respond to the Gospel message. That, too, is a form of confession. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I've heard my pastor say just about the same thing. By the time the person walks the isle, they have already had it in their hearts, and are now acting on the promptings of the Holy Spirit.
    Mind you not his exact words, which I can't remember.
     
  13. PackerBacker

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Wells:


    But clearly, a "confessional prayer" to God is a requirement of salvation.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    John

    If this is true, I have a serious problem. How do I tell the believers I am discipling that they are not saved yet because they have not finished the requirement of a "confessional prayer." Even though they believe, have been baptized, see changes taking place in their lives, and have complete confidence in Christ's work alone, they are not saved (according to what you say is a requirement).

    I have a discipleship class tonight and will read your response to them. It will be good to see how they respond.

    I expected some to say a prayer was a good thing for a person but I’m shocked to see you say it is a requirement for salvation.
     
  14. EPH 1:4

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    Carl Hatch,an IFB preacher, one of best known "soul winners" in IFB circles, has deceived many, many people with his "soul-winning" methods. Repeat this prayer after me is one, another one is when he is "witnessing" to a person, he tries to hold their hand and ask them "do you want to be saved" if that person says no, he then puts pressure on the persons hand, if the person still says "no"...you guessed it, more pressure. Either that person "prays the prayer" or gets his hand broke. He is considered a "great" IFB preacher.....many decieved people in IFB churches.
     
  15. John Wells

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    PackerBacker,

    It is not me you have a serious problem with, but the Bible:

    Romans 10:9-10 (ESV)
    because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord AND believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

    Someone earlier asked "exactly when does a person become saved." I say, when "with the heart one believes," and when "with the mouth one confesses" to God, then they are saved the moment the Holy Spirit indwells them.

    [ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: John Wells ]
     
  16. John Wells

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    1 John 4:15 (ESV)
    Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

    Matthew 10:32-33 (ESV)
    So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

    Matthew is clear! Confession not only to God, but confession before men is required for salvation. Don’t fall for “easy believism!”

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>In reality, secret discipleship is a practical impossibility. Jesus constantly called for an open confession of Himself by His followers. We must be willing to acknowledge Jesus as Lord and Saviour, with all that those terms imply. That our confession is to be before men clearly indicates that a public confession of true Christian faith is a virtual necessity.
    KJV Bible commentary. 1997, c1994 (electronic ed.) (Mt 10:32). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    [ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: John Wells ]
     
  17. PackerBacker

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Wells:
    PackerBacker,

    It is not me you have a serious problem with, but the Bible:

    [ December 03, 2001:
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    John,

    Actually my problem is not with the Bible but with your statement of a “confessional prayer" being necessary for salvation (the thing you high lighted in bold). I totally agree with the Bible that a believer will not be ashamed to confess Jesus as their Lord. The NT is full of examples of those who believed and confessed their faith to others. I really don’t have a problem with the Bible. In fact if you can convince me or the group of believers, I’ll be meeting with tonight, that the Bible teaches we need to pray a “confessional prayer” as a requirement to salvation, I’ll repent, tell the group they are still lost, and ask each of them to pray a “confessional prayer” so they can really be saved.

    Any examples of people in the NT being told or led in a “confessional prayer” for salvation would be helpful.
     
  18. John Wells

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    Why are you hung up on "confessional?" Confessional - suited to, typical of, or resembling an act of confession. - Encarta® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1999 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Developed for Microsoft by Bloomsbury Publishing Plc.

    The scriptures previously given make it clear that private confession to God of our sins and need for Him, and public confession are both necessary for salvation.

    Where did I say anyone needed to lead someone. That came out of your head, not mine. Please don't add your words to mine and claim they are from me. Perhaps you are equating "confessional" with the Catholic thing. I can assure you that was not my thought.

    [ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: John Wells ]
     
  19. PackerBacker

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Wells:

    Matthew 10:32-33 (ESV)
    So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

    Matthew is clear! Confession not only to God, but confession before men is required for salvation. Don’t fall for “easy believism!”

    [ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: John Wells ]
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    We do agree on one thing and that is the danger of "easy believism." I wish you knew how un-easy it was for these people I'm dealing with to see their need, count the cost, and unashamedly share their faith with others, even without a “confessional prayer”. Fact is some of them prayed "confessional prayers" from different religious groups in the past, as a part of “easy-believism.”

    Matthew is clear that an acknowledgement / confession of Christ will go hand in hand with the child of God but he does not say that a person will pray a “confessional prayer” as a requirement to salvation.
     
  20. John Wells

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    Hey, I think our roads are about to cross! Let's take out "confessional" and "pray." For salvation to be real one must confess their sins and need to God (Rom 10:9-10), and must confess their faith in God before men (Matt 10:32-33).
     

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