Praying for the dead... ???

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Jesus is Lord, Jun 16, 2005.

  1. Jesus is Lord

    Jesus is Lord
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    Hi there!

    I do not (!) believe that anyone should pray for dead people... a man dies and after that the judgement. But is there a "clear" verse which can be "used" to support this? A clear verse that tells us that we are not supposed to do this?
     
  2. prophecynut

    prophecynut
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    Deu. 18:10-11, Isa. 8:19

    King Saul went to a medium to contact the spirit of Samuel, 1 Sa. 28:8-11.
     
  3. BobRyan

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    Isaiah 8 is so pointed in telling that we are not to consult the dead on behalf of the living that it is impossible to miss.

    Having said that -- what do RCC sources say about this subject?

    ..
    </font>[/QUOTE]
     
  4. SouthernBoy

    SouthernBoy
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    I believe this is the official Catholic response:

     
  5. billwald

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    It is probably as effective as praying for the alive.
     
  6. prophecynut

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    Where did you dig up this garbage?

    The Bible says those resurrected onto life will be "like the angels" (Mt. 22:30; Mk. 12:25; Lk. 20:36).

    Are you aware of Col. 2:18: "Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions."

    John was taken up in the spirit on the Lord's day to see "what must take place after" the Church Age (4:1). The Church Age is not over yet, when it does those prophetic things in Mt. 24 and Rev. will be fulfilled after it.

    The saints in 5 & 8 are not there now, they won't be until the Church is raptured and they receive glorified bodies like Jesus has. The angels are not presenting the prayers of those on earth, they are the prayers of the Church saints assembled around God's throne. The "smoke of the incense" rising is symbolic of these prayers.

    Christ's blood shed on the cross "purchased" these saints "from every tribe and language and people and nation (5:9)."
     
  7. BobRyan

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  8. gb93433

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    Only if your prayers reach ceiling height.
     
  9. BobRyan

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    #1. The story-book calls them "THE DEAD" not even "The DEAD in Christ" so the RCC by using this is claiming to PRAY FOR the DEAD and in that regard even TO THE DEAD!! What a confession.

    #2. The story-book charges that these DEAD (and not merely their dead bodies) are THEMSELVES ASLEEP!!! This means that the RCC is claiming that THE DEAD being prayed for are NOT in purgatory but are ASLEEP according to this story.

    #3. The story-book charges that THE DEAD receive NO BENEFIT from this prayer APART from the RESURRECTION of the DEAD. The RCC would have to RENOUNCE ALL claims to benefits IN DEATH to claim this "story".

    #4. The story book claims that THE DEAD who die in the MORTAL SIN of IDOLATRY CAN be benefitted by prayers for forgiveness. The RCC today REJECTS the idea that ANYONE can be benefitted IF THEY die in mortal sin which they claim IDOLATRY is!! They would have to change their teaching on MORTAL vs VENIAL sin distinctions where they claim that in Purgatory it is ONLY THE VENIAL sins that are dealt with because those with MORTAL SINS can't be there.

    But except for all that "attention to detail" this is a good text for Catholics!! (And I so love it when they fall for using it). It is "instructive" that they have SO LITTLE in support of their man-made tradition (that so contradicts scripture) that the BEST they can find to support it is this text that so debunks their ideas on death and what happens in death!!

    </font>[/QUOTE]</font>[/QUOTE]
     
  10. BobRyan

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    This is a good example of praying TO the dead and getting a medium to help - since God is not about to help!

    Is it not "instructive" that God will not give Saul access to Samuel?? Only SATAN has control of Samuel so Saul has to go to SATAN?? Why in the world should THAT be? In fact we have NO examples of anyone going to the dead for help in all of scripture outside of this example of Saul asking Satan for "a little help" in reaching Samuel!!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. Rachel

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    What about Luke 16:19-31 ?

    19“Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. 20“And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22“Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23“In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment , and saw* Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24“And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ 25“But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.
    26‘And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed , so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’
    27“And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— 28for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29“But Abraham said*, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30“But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31“But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”


    Praying for the dead does no good. We have until our last breath, when God gives it to us, that's it.
     
  12. Bro. James

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    Noone except Saul...

    My concordance lists 16 scriptures that refer to "familiar spirits", i.e. spirits from the dead including:
    Lev. 19:31; 20:6; 20:27...

    A word study on "familiar spirit" is helpful.

    Surely, Saul was not the only one with such a problem. There seems to be a similiarity between present day seances and channeling--still abominations.

    Try every spirit--by The Word.

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     
  13. TP

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    Greetings,

    The poster asked about praying FOR the dead, NOT to the dead. Where does it say NOT to pray for those who died? If we are NOT to pray for those who died, why have a funeral.

    I could bring up Maccabees where they were told to pray for the dead. Even if you don't accept this as canonical scripture, you have to accept it has historical fact that people did pray for the dead in Jewish history and it was NOT condemened.

    peace
     
  14. TexasSky

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    Matthew 8:22 - But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
     
  15. Lorelei

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    Where does it say TO pray for the dead?

    ~Lorelei
     
  16. BobRyan

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    No text of scripture shows the saints praying TO the dead!

    No text of scripture shows the saints praying FOR the dead.

    EVEN the RCC Bible of 2Macc DOES NOT show anyone praying FOR the dead as if the DEAD would be benefitted by those prayers WHILE DEAD - BEFORE the resurrection!

    The entire practice is from paganism.

    ..
     

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