Pre- Tribulation or Post-Tribulation???

post-trib, pre-mill, Raptured-up-to-heaven with Christ at the 2nd coming.

Like it says in Matt 24.

Quote:
The time line according to Matthew 24

1. church age continues <== you are here! Matthew 24:4-15

2. Tribulation time Matthew 24:21-28

3. Second Advent of Jesus event Matthew 24:29-30)

4. rapture/resurrection event Matthew 24:31-44, Rev 20:4-5

5. Millennium - Rev 20:5-end

(But of course "that" would be the Bible)

 

Luckily for us - it is really really "easy" to see that the Matt 24 prophecy goes wayyy past the cross! AND it includes the coming of Christ where aLL tribes of the earth see and are in anguish!

 

Bob do you get a cookie after you post this 50 times or something? You act like if you type it enough times you'll convince yourself it's true.

Just because you type something over and over doesn't make it so.

 

Many times in these discussions the BIBLE sits there like an "elephant in the living room" that many here will try to avoid.

Kinda fun to watch you do it.

 

None of this supports the Word Faith teachings that men have a magical power with their thoughts or tongues.

There is a difference between the impact of our words and saying our words can alter reality by a special power or force.

I know this is off-topic, but I can't not respond to anything supporting the false teachings of Word Faith.

 

On the other hand, Hebrews says Jesus sat down :smilewinkgrin:

Of course, I think this is a picture of Jesus having finished his work on earth for the Father. raise:

 

one question: where does the 144,000 from the tribes of Israel come into play? (and yes i know that two tribes i think are missing from the list)

 

Rev 7 they are those who are sealed at the time of the end -- just before probation closes for all mankind.

Once the window of probation closes - then you get the Rev 16 plagues because as Rev 15 shows -- Christ no longer ministers in the Heavenly Sanctuary between God and man. The UNIQUE role He has in Lev 16 as High Priest in the Atonement process will have ended.

In Christ,

Bob

 

I was originally pre-trib, and stayed so for over a decade. Several months ago I was introduced to the preterist viewpoint. I began an in-depth study of Biblical eschatological prophecy to assess the validity of the preterist position. Something unexpected happened.

I came to reject the preterist position, but after re-reading all the prophecies of both the OT and NT I found myself questioning my own pre-trib position.

The result?
I now believe the Pre-Millennial Post-Tribulation Rapture View.

If you're a futurist, no matter which Rapture view you hold, I think you should hope for a pre-trib and plan for a post-trib.

 

Amil here too.

 

So how do you deal with the typology that Enoch was taken up before Noah, which is a typology of a remenant of Israel being saved through the tribulation?

 

The translation account of Enoch can be used to show that God does rapture believers, but is no indication as to when.

 

Sure it is. That is why it came before Noah. These historical happenings were not just coincidences. God uses these historical events to teach us spiritual truth. Enoch came after the death and blood of the sacrifice, but was removed from the earth before the flood.

Enoch is a picture of the church which came about only after the death and shed blood of The Sacrifice, and the church will be removed before the tribulation, in which a remnant of Israel will be saved through.

 

The Bible doesn't state Enoch was removed from the earth to escape the flood to come. It simply says he walked with God and was taken. You read into the account a timeframe that you want to see.

 

I'm not saying the Bible states that he was removed to escape the flood to come, but the Bible uses historical realities to teach us spiritual truth. Do you think that it is mere coincidence that the events happened in the pattern that they happened in?

God is not a God of coincidences. We have that pattern to teach us. And it teaches us that the church will be removed prior to the tribulation.

You don't have to believe it if you don't want to, but it's awfully hard to deny.

 

Read Heb 11 - God took Enoch and he did not die.

 

Enoch was taken, and Elijah was taken. Neither of these incidents "Claim" that the people of God will always be snapped up before running into tribulation. IF They did then God owes the Christians of the dark ages a HUGE appology!

Basically the model would have already failed in the dark ages AND AGAIN it would have failed in the early Christian persecution by pagan Roma even BEFORE the dark ages.

 

Post trib -

Pre-millennial --

Absolutely Biblical - spot on!

But you need to STAY with the view of John 14 that the Pre and mid trib guys have! Just because you DO get to post-trib and you do get to the truth of pre-mill does not mean you have to give up the truth you already had on John 14 and 1Thess 4 where we are raptured UP to be with Christ in heaven at the Rev 19 fulfillment of the John 14 promise that HE will "Come again" and "RECEIVE you TO Myself" after having GONE to His Father's house to "prepare a place for us" -- THERE!

 

Why do you always read into my statements what you want to read? That's not what I said, and your statement isn't even close to what I said.

God doesn't claim to yank His children out of hard times, but promises to go through it with them.

However, when you start talking about THE tribulation then you are talking about a differen dispensational subject.

When THE tribulation comes God will be finished dealing with the one new man in Christ in man's day and the church will be removed.

The reason being is that God is turning His attention back to His adulterous wife - Israel.

The tribulation is a final seven-year period finishing off the dispensation of Israel. It has nothing to do with the church, so there is no point in the church being here for it.

It's not a model to live by, it's a pattern based on God's timing in His dealings with the church. No one said we should model our lives by this.

THE tribulation has not come yet, so this teaching hasn't even had a chance to pass or fail yet.

 

For those of you that believe in the post-tribulational rapture, what is the Biblical purpose for the church going through the tribulation?

God will use the tribulation to turn Israel back to Himself, but what is the purpose of the church going through the tribulation while God's attention is on Israel?