Preachers and Restaurants

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by tfisher, Jul 19, 2002.

  1. tfisher

    tfisher
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    As someone studying for the ministry I would like to get a sense of how the pastors out there feel about eating at restaurants that serve alcoholic beverages. I am not talking about bars. I am talking about a place where the primary business is food, but alcoholic beverages are served if one so chooses. An example would be Red Lobster or Outback Steakhouse.
     
  2. Pastor Larry

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    It depends on what the food tastes like and who's paying. [​IMG]
     
  3. go2church

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    Doesn't stop me from going.
     
  4. tfisher

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    I had never given it a second thought until a pastor, whom I respect very much, said that he never goes to restaurants where alcohol is served. He did say it was more of a personal conviction and he would not be judgmental of anyone else who decided to eat at a place like that. I figure if I am taking up one of their tables and drinking Coke they can't be serving alcohol to someone else at that table.
     
  5. Dr. Bob

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    This was a huge area of "outward separation" from the world in the 1950's. We didn't eat at such evil places; they were just glorified bars!

    And didn't bowl anywhere that had a bar. Or skate. It was part of the "Blue Laws" - unwritten code that tried to bring Judaistic legalistic "sabbath-keeping activities" into the Baptist realm. Didn't work.

    Much of that went out the window when bras started burning and deeper issues of separation surfaced.

    Now, I know very few restaurants, pizza places, etc that do NOT serve alcohol. And haven't seen a bowling alley without booze in decades.

    Society has changed. Cultural standards that are not based on absolutes of the Word will, of necessity, change with the culture.
     
  6. Rev. Joshua

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    I'm probably the wrong person to ask since - when I was in seminary - we used to go out for margaritas and never thought twice about it.

    Where exactly does this pastor friend of yours eat if they don't eat at places that serve alcohol. Around here, that would limit someone to fast food restaurants.

    Joshua
     
  7. tfisher

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    He eats at places like Shoney's, Frisch's, Ryan's, and Cracker Barrel. It really isn't much of a selection.
     
  8. SaggyWoman

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    It hasn't stopped me either. Sometimes, if I am dining alone, and there is a long line, I will ask to be seated in the bar so I will get seated quicker. Of course, I am not a drinker, and my water glass is highly visible.

    I am more prone to boycott convenience stores/gas stations that sell pornography, though.
     
  9. Pastor_Bob

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    While it is true that society, and cultural standards have changed, the precepts and principles in God's Word have not. Malachi 3:6 "For I am the LORD, I change not..."

    While most of us (except Joshua apparently) would agree that drinking alcoholic beverages violates the Word of God, there is another principle set forth for our heeding.

    Romans 14:12 "So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
    13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
    14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
    15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
    16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
    17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
    18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
    19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
    20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
    21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak." (KJV)

    I believe it would be the case if you asked 100 lost people if a Christian should drink alcohol, 99 of them would say no. If going to eat in a place that serves alcohol causes a lost man or even a weaker brother to stumble, don't go there. Even if it means that fast food is all you have available.

    Another verse along this line is: 1Cor 8:9 "But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
    10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
    11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
    12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
    13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend." (KJV)

    So, the question is not really, "Is it right or wrong?" The question is, "Is this best for me and for those God has given me influence over.
     
  10. John3v36

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    To make this short I will have to with Pastor Bob 63 on this on. :cool:
     
  11. blackbird

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    The late great Dr. Homer Lindsey, Jr.--use to tell the Pastor's School attendees--not to go to those restaurants that serve beer, wine, etc. There are too many other ones out there that don't--give them your business!! My hat is off to the late great Dr. Lindsey for pointing out to me the truth! Wouldn't touch that rotten stuff if you held a machine gun to my head!
     
  12. Rev. Joshua

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    Perhaps we're around different crowds of lost people, but I've found sitting down to have a beer with a non-Christian is usually a segue for helping them understand that being a Christian is not synonymous with false legalism.

    Apparently our wine-making Saviour who hung out with drunkards and prostitutes was not concerned with the stumbling block that behavior presented to the Pharisees.

    Joshua
     
  13. Pastor_Bob

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    Perhaps we're around different crowds of lost people, but I've found sitting down to have a beer with a non-Christian is usually a segue for helping them understand that being a Christian is not synonymous with false legalism.

    Apparently our wine-making Saviour who hung out with drunkards and prostitutes was not concerned with the stumbling block that behavior presented to the Pharisees.

    Joshua
    </font>[/QUOTE]These remarks are so nonsensical and unbiblical that all I can say is, God help us.
     
  14. Pastor_Bob

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    These remarks are so nonsensical and unbiblical that all I can say is, God help us.[/QB][/QUOTE]

    Joshua, please forgive me for the harshness of my last post. The Holy Spirit smote me as soon as I posted it. I cannot, at this time, delete or edit my posts or I would have.

    Although I strongly disagree with your position, I shouldn't have made the remarks I did. Please forgive me.

    Sincerely,
    Pastor Bob
     
  15. go2church

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    Come'on, someone is holding a machine gun to your head and your not going to drink a beer! Not this guy, if you've got a machine gun or any other type of gun to my head....bottoms up. BTW, I don't drink, well unless your holding a gun of course.
     
  16. Rev. Joshua

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    Bob,

    Apology accepted.

    I do question your "unbiblical" statement, since my point was firmly grounded in the gospels. Matthew 9:10-13 is one of many passages that shows how Jesus' habits of dining in places frequented by sinners and sinful behavior was a "stumbling block" to the Pharisees acceptance of him. Yet he did it anyway.

    This seems perfectly relevant to our discussion of whether or not to eat in a place that serves alcohol. It's also certainly biblical.

    Joshua
     
  17. Brother Adam

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    Drinking sinful? Not in my Bible.

    Bro. Adam

    (ps- I don't drink, but that is my own personal conviction. I appreciate the fact that my future wife wants to drink in moderation. It will be good for our kids to see one parent who chooses to drink in moderation, and one who doesn't)

    [ July 20, 2002, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: Brother Adam ]
     
  18. Pastor_Bob

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    Jesus did indeed minister to drunkards and prostitutes. I would question whether or not He "hung out" with them. Verses 12 & 13 declare His motives.

    The first thought that comes to mind is that Jesus is God; you and I are not. Worldly influences have a much greater effect on us than they did Jesus. I would have a hard time agreeing that Jesus entered into their vices for the purpose of "helping them understand that being a Christian is not synonymous with false legalism."

    The Bible clearly tells us that Jesus, although a minister to the unrighteous, did not become like them.
    Heb 7:26 "For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners , and made higher than the heavens;"

    Nowhere in the Word of God are New Testament Christians to lower themselves to the level of the world in order to reach the world. God's plan for the Christian is simple: Mat. 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."

    Again, I have a hard time accepting that "sitting down to have a beer with a non-Christian" is what Christ had in mind when He said "Let your light so shine..."

    Lost men and women are to see our "good works" and the result will be them glorifying the Father. What brings glory to the Father?
    John 15:8 "Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples."
     
  19. Rev. Joshua

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    I really should be finishing my sermon, so I'll probably have to pick this up on Monday.

    Maybe you and I have different images of "hanging out," but keeping company with social outcasts and unrepentant sinners was one of the Pharisees chief complaints about Jesus (see Matthew 11:18-19 among others).

    I certainly am not saying that going to a bar for a beer with a friend is a sin; but even if someone thinks it is I don't think that's a compelling argument to not eat in a restaurant that serves alcohol (if we are to follow the example of Jesus in such things).

    Joshua
     
  20. Pastor_Bob

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    1Thess. 5:22 "Abstain from all appearance of evil."

    Prov. 20:1 "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."
    If you are thinking you can drink in moderation and it not affect you. You are undoubtedly deceived.

    Prov. 23:31 "Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
    32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
    33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.
    34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.
    35 They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again ."

    That, my friend, is bondage.

    What the parents do in moderation, the children tend to do in excess.
     

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