Preparing a truthful Calvinist sermon

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by steaver, Jan 13, 2015.

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  1. steaver

    steaver
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    WARNING!!!! THIS IS A PROVOCATIVE OP MEANT TO SPARK DEBATE AND SHED LIGHT ON JUST WHAT IS THE TRUTH CONCERNING CALVINISM. PLEASE CONTINUE READING WITHOUT LETTING IT PROVOKE YOU TO ANGER. IT IS MEAN'T TO ESTABLISH WHAT TEACHINGS CALVINIST ARE TRULY SUPPORTING WITHIN THE CAMP.

    Greetings All,

    I have decided to prepare my first evangelical sermon for when and if the Lord and Creator Jesus Christ happens to make me one of His sheep, saving me.

    I have spent quite a bit of time debating TULIP/Calvinism with those here who have been given Divine Enablement to believe and be saved by Calvinism, so I am getting ready just in case I find out one day that I am one of God's elect through belief in TULIP/Calvinism.

    So far so good? Calvinist feel free to critique. These are the beliefs that have been expressed to me by Calvinist in my debate threads. I haven't seen any Calvinist rebuke these beliefs, so I have to assume they are well within the camp of Calvinist believers.
     
  2. BobRyan

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    The honest and consistent sermon should include

    Every Calvinist on the planet could get up that sort of simple format and sermon.

    We should see Calvinist evangelism exploding in great numbers all over the world!!
     
  3. BobRyan

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    Of course the "truthful Arminian Sermon" goes something like this ...

    18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

    20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
     
  4. savedbymercy

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    The world here in 2 Cor 5:19 is a world that is saved from the penalty of its sins ! If you notice, Paul says that God did not impute or charge it with its sins, so that means its already saved from the penalty of its sins, so it cannot be speaking of the whole world without exception, because many in the world are going to die in their sins in unbelief Jn 8:24 ! Thats impossible for to do for anyone who is reconciled to God already by the death of God's Son ! The World in 2 Cor 5:19 is limited to the Saved not the Lost.

    The Lost world has the Gospel hid from them 2 Cor 4:3-4 and they cannot believe !
     
  5. PreachTony

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    The Bible tells us rather explicitly that Christ came not to condemn the world, but that through Him the world might be saved. He came so that "whosoever will" could come unto Him. He knocks at the door, and it is up to man to open the door. Through the preaching of the gospel, man comes to faith, which enables man to call upon the name of the Lord, and the Bible tells us that "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Christ told Nicodemus that "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

    If the lost are forever deaf and blind to the gospel, then those scriptures referenced above are either inaccurate or outright false. If man is indeed born saved or born damned, as savedbymercy has posited, then the scriptures in John 3 are full of false hopes. If man does not have to be "born again," as sbm's stated position has been that man is either born saved or born damned, then Jesus was not truthful in speaking to Nicodemus. If man cannot possibly open the door when Jesus knocks, then we have another scriptural falsehood.

    The notion that Jesus is somehow weakened or somehow failed if the gospel is rejected is not scriptural. The fact that man can accept or reject the gift of God shows a loving God willing to allow the creation that He gave freedom of will and choice to choose eternal life or eternal damnation. Note that the scripture says the "world through Him might be saved." The offer is made. All the work has been accomplished. All that remains is for man to accept or reject Jesus. That's why the Bible says Jesus knocks at the door, and then says IF any man will open the door. That's why the scripture says the world MIGHT be saved. Accepting the free gift of God does save us. It is not a weak or ineffective salvation, but rather a lasting seal upon us until the day of redemption.

    If the lost are incapable of hearing the gospel, then the Great Commission was for nothing. Paul's instruction to Timothy about being instant in season and out of season is meaningless. His explanation to the Romans about faith's relationship to the preached word of God is nothing more than a rambling series of words. But if the lost can indeed hear the word, and the Spirit can move with them to draw them to repentance, then we can see the awesome continuity and simplicity of the salvation message. If the lost cannot hear the gospel, then the work I feel I've done for the Lord is completely meaningless and actually quite wasteful. But if the Spirit can (and it does) use a broken little man such as myself to preach to people Jesus Christ crucified, resurrected, and now sitting at the right hand of the Father making intercession for us, then I feel so blessed and privileged to get to lift up the name of my Father.
     
  6. savedbymercy

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    The world in 2 Cor 5:19 is not in a unreconciled condition as many false teachers tell us, but that World has been already reconciled to God. Thats declared in Vs 18

    18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us [Believers] to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

    The same Truth in Rom 5:10

    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son[Jesus Christ], much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    Now they were reconciled while enemies/unbelievers !
     
  7. steaver

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    How could they be considered enemies if they were elect from the foundation of the world? Did God hate them before He then loved them?
     
  8. savedbymercy

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    Because they were, all the elect are by nature at enmity with God in their minds Col 1:21

    21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

    Being Elect before the foundation does not mean the Elect are not born sinners, thats a dumb question by you, shows your spiritual ignorance !

    Now, you need to deal with the Truth I presented from the scripture. The World in 2 Cor 5:19 is reconciled World,Not one sin of theirs is charged/imputed to them !

    Not only that, even while they were enemies,unbelievers, they were reconciled to God, How ? BY THE DEATH OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST !!!! Rom 5:10

    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    Now deal with it and quit evading it with questions which draw away from this Fact I have presented from the scripture !
     
  9. PreachTony

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    I assume the Elect are the ones who "hear the gospel" because it is not hidden to them, right? (Using your terms.)

    But you told me that they are born saved. Is a saved person an "enemy of God?" How can someone be born saved (this is your theology) and yet still be accounted an enemy of God?
     
  10. savedbymercy

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    So people are making a huge blunder by referring to 2 Cor 5:19 as to be a text for unlimited atonement, because in fact, that World in 2 Cor 5:19 is a saved World from the penalty of its sins through Christ, so none who belong to that World has any sin of theirs charged to them, they are innocent as far as God is concerned, read it 2 Cor 5:19

    19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    Now who is foolish enough to say that this applies to all mankind without exception ? There is no scripture warrent for that, NONE !
     
  11. steaver

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    Well, that could possibly be a dumb question, problem is, that wasn't my question, so not sure where the "ignorance" actually lies there.

    But I will post my questions again for you.....actually it was a two part question in which you did not address the latter...

    "How could they be considered enemies if they were elect from the foundation of the world? Did God hate them before He then loved them?"

    (note, nothing in my question about them not being born sinners)
     
  12. steaver

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    Well, faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. So they would at least have to read the definitions of TULIP to them.
     
  13. Iconoclast

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    steaver

    **** I steaver am going to show once again that I have no clue what Calvinism is, however I will post about it anyway!*****:laugh:


    If you only had some idea what the truth was:sleeping_2:
    more like sadness

    yes, like Isis is trying to promote the religion of peace:thumbs:


    Ignorant point #1......when and if
    #....."happens" to make me
    Already declaring ignorance of the biblical God.

    a debate requires substance from both sides...you lack that so you turn to this.
    we do not have to as there is no substance......we just need to read to see how badly you misunderstand it:thumbs:
     
  14. convicted1

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    Brother Steaver,

    No wonder you oppose Calvinism the way you do. You have a catergorically false view of all it entails, and that's why you rail against it. What you post as 'Calvinism' isn't Calvinism.

    Here's a true story that occured just tonight....


    A beloved Sister at my home church lost her 59 y/o daddy to cancer. I went over to the funeral home where they had him to pay my respects and love for her and her husband, a recently ordained Elder(Old Regular Baptist preachers are given that title, btw). After church, I was talking to a married couple who belonged to a FWB church close to the funeral home, and knew the man who died from cancer. And man, did we have a Godly conversation! I had mentioned to him how crowded it was when I had first gotten there and had a hard time getting around the place. He said that it was less crowded after the singing started.

    That's what I am driving at. People don't want anything to do with God, in their fallen state. No one twisted the arms of those who chose to leave when church started. No one urged them step outside. No one put a gun to their head and told them to leave. They freely left. They wanted nothing to do with the Light.....
     
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Oye vey!:tear:
     
  16. steaver

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    Could you please point out which part or parts of the sermon you would disagree with and why?
     
  17. steaver

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    Could you please point out which part or parts of the sermon you would disagree with and why?
     
  18. BobRyan

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    you are wanting details at a point where the inconvenience is rather large for the Calvinist POV.

    so then - dancing around the details - is most likely response.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  19. BobRyan

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    All vitriol and acrymony in that post -- no substance.

    The point remains.

    And for those Calvinists who can explain why they are giving Arminian sermons for evangelism - without admitting "because frankly Calvinism just does not work when one is doing evangelism" feel free to speak up.


    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  20. Revmitchell

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