Preterist? Do I get this Right?

Amen, Brother Daniel David - Preach it!

 

Spurgeon: "The destruction of Jerusalem was more terrible than anything that the world has ever witnessed, either before or since.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834-1892) knew
of the 70AD slaying of one million Jews
and the selling into slavery of one
million more Jews leaving perhaps a
million Jews left to scatter in the diasporia.
Spurgeon never lived to see the slaying
of six million Jews in Europe in 1942-1945.
The destruction of Jews in Nazi Europe
is THREE TIMES worse than anything
that Spurgeon knew. The tribulation period
wrath of God judgements will be worse.

 

This is usually the argument for this part of Matt 24. Do you really think it is the quantity of casualties that Christ spoke of as being something never seen before? Or the fact that the great city of Jerusalem, which should've never become a city of desolation, became just that.

I'm not a pret, but this is something that makes more sense to me than to look for a higher body count somewhere down the road.

 

a. I'm not sure that that is what Christ spoke.

b. body count is good enough for me.
Would you like precentages? The 70AD
killed 1/6th of the world Jews.
The 1942-45 event killed 1/3 of the world Jews.
Is percentages good enough for you?

1347-1351 over 25 million Europeans
died of the "black death", bubonic plague.
this was over 1/4 of the population of
Europe.

Have you had your bubonic plage innoculation?
I have had it.

 

What is it about our times and discoveries that have lead one to believe the Olivet Discourse is not about the fall of Jerusalem?

You seem to just be looking for a reason to reject their interpretations because they don't fit the Pre-Trib/Pre-Mill view.

 

Gotcha

So where do you divide Luke 21 from past to future?

6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in which there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked him, saying, Teacher, when therefore shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when these things are about to come to pass?
8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not led astray: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am he; and, The time is at hand: go ye not after them.
9 And when ye shall hear of wars and tumults, be not terrified: for these things must needs come to pass first; but the end is not immediately.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom;
11 and there shall be great earthquakes, and in divers places famines and pestilences; and there shall be terrors and great signs from heaven.
12 But before all these things, they shall lay their hands on you, and shall persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for my name's sake.
13 It shall turn out unto you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate beforehand how to answer:
15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to withstand or to gainsay.
16 But ye shall be delivered up even by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolk, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 And not a hair of your head shall perish.
19 In your patience ye shall win your souls.
20 But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand.
21 Then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains; and let them that are in the midst of her depart out; and let not them that are in the country enter therein.
22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled .
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the billows;
26 men fainting for fear, and for expectation of the things which are coming on the world: for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory .
28 But when these things begin to come to pass, look up, and lift up your heads; because your redemption draweth nigh.
29 And he spake to them a parable: Behold the fig tree, and all the trees:
30 when they now shoot forth, ye see it and know of your own selves that the summer is now nigh.
31 Even so ye also, when ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished .
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34 But take heed to yourselves, lest haply your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day come on you suddenly as a snare:
35 for so shall it come upon all them that dwell on the face of all the earth.
36 But watch ye at every season, making supplication, that ye may prevail to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
37 And every day he was teaching in the temple; and every night he went out, and lodged in the mount that is called Olivet.
38 And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, to hear him.

This is why I have problem with the partial-pret position. The Olivet Discourse is clearly speaking of the Destruction of Jerusalem in AD70, yet the partial-pret position denies the coming on the clouds of Jesus, and that "all things written were fulfilled". So where and why do you split it up into two different occurences?

 

Ok so if they believe that umm .......

question - What are we doing here, and umm -sits back and is very confused on this theroy-

 

No, I don't believe that a body count or percentages of death over many many years give an answer. Why would it be based on casualties?

 

I'm wondering if the Generations, Might mean the Generation of the Church. Before Christ's birth, Churches were diffrent. They were looking toward the Cross (one generation).. Could we be in the second generation (Looking away from the cross and to his return) as the second generation. If that is the case that Generation hasn't ended yet. If Christ would have come back in 70 AD I think that we would all know it ONE, and TWO I don't think that we would be here. If this is the case how do you explain Paul? I'm not understanding the basis for this theroy it's not Biblically accurate at least in my mind

 

Bro. Bill:

That's where I'm at. I think there's alot riding on this one date, and there doesn't seem to be any other historical writings about this happening outside of Josephus and Tacitus that I am aware of. Maybe others can point to different historical documents.

 

Again, if Luke 21 is speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem, what is meant by His coming in the clouds, and "all things fulfilled"? The text still must be dealt with no matter what one's escatological view is.

Check the examples of the OT references to the "comings" of the Lord and see what the nature of those comings were.

 

But notice vs.:22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled .

What does "all things" not include? Verse 22 seems to suggest that all the things the Prophets prophesied of would happen at that time.

On what basis do you split verse 24 from 25?

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the billows;


This is a continuous thought. There is no reason to to suggest that Jesus skipped to another subject in verse 25. I doubt any on this board would to this to any other passages, yet when it comes to eschatology there seems to be an "anything goes" attitude in interpretation.

This is just one example of why I have found no reason to return to the futurist view. If the Olivet Discourse is speaking of the Destruction of Jerusalem, and I have no doubt it does, then how can you put the events mentioned in these verses into the future?

Please provide these examples, and how do you determine which ones have double fulfillment and which ones don't? Perhaps another Messiah will be born in the future????