Prevenient Grace

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by John Gilmore, Jul 31, 2004.

  1. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore
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    Is "Prevenient Grace" unique to the Methodist tradition? Do all Arminians agree with "Prevenient Grace"? Do any Calvinists accept it?

    [ July 31, 2004, 06:49 AM: Message edited by: John Gilmore ]
     
  2. Southern

    Southern
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    John Gilmore,
    I would disagree witht his if by "draw" it meant to "Wooo".

    I would grant that their is a "common" grace that all recieve but the only ones who actually come to Christ are those appointed to eternal life (Acts 13:48) and given to Him by the Father (John 6:37). So whatever previenent grace does (regardless of definition) it is only these who God actually intends to save who come to Him.

    In Christ
     
  3. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    Prevenient Grace -A Wesleyan View written by Dr. Leo G. Cox, Ph.D. says:

    Unconditional Election or the 'Unconditional decree excludes faith as well as works. If salvation is by the decree of God then it cannot be by faith as a condition for salvation.'

    Ray: It only makes sense; if He has elected some to Heaven and the majority to Hell, as Calvinists pretend to believe, then there is no value for faith in Jesus in order to receive the covering for sins, namely the atonement. The King preformed His decision in eternity past and we all have our destination marked on us from birth. Faith, in this scenario, is a blind trust in His predeterminism or as stated in the secular realm, fate.

    Prevenient grace is the activity of God on the lives of all sinners as stated in John 1:9. He really does 'light every man who comes into the world.' The Holy Spirit goes to sinners before they receive Christ, convicting and convincing them of their guilt before holy God. But no sinner is infused with the precious Holy Spirit without the volitional aspect of the human soul, which in effect is saying, "Yes, I want to believe in Jesus, so He will take away my sins. This is what we call faith. [Hebrews 11:6] In this passage you will see that, in this verse, it is the sinner who senses his need of the Christ of God. If God regenerates the soul of the sinner first, then whether a man or woman believes in Jesus and has faith is superfluous.

    Yes, sinners are depraved because of Original Sin, but no so much so that the Spirit of God cannot work on their soul and conscience in leading them to their response of faith [Romans 5:1] in His Divine Person and grace. [James 3:9]

    Berrian, Th.D.
     
  4. Southern

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    Bro. Ray,

    Below are some comments from the first paragraph of your last post,

    You said :if He has elected some to Heaven and the majority to Hell, as Calvinists pretend to believe, then there is no value for faith in Jesus in order to receive the covering for sins, namely the atonement.

    Me:"majority to hell"? I personally do not believe this and would say that the majority of Calvinists I know do not believe this. About there being "no value for faith" from your viewpoint, from a Calvinist viewpoint God has not only ordained the "ends" (Salvation) but also the "means" (calling through the gospel).
    You must "come to Christ", John 6:37, and "believe", Acts 13:48, but the ones that do that are clearly shown in John 6:37 to be the ones given to Jesus by the Father.
    you daid: The King preformed His decision in eternity past and we all have our destination marked on us from birth.

    Me:His decision preceded their faith, yes. John 6:37 and Acts 13:48 clearly teach this. While election is in eternity, the application comes in time.

    you said: Faith, in this scenario, is a blind trust in His predeterminism or as stated in the secular realm, fate.

    me: Faith is trust in Christ. Fate says "what will be will be" as if some blind force is controlling the universe. Predestination says that an all mighty God says "What God will be, will be" (Eph. 1:11).

    In Christ
     
  5. BobRyan

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    Is "Prevenient Grace" unique to the Methodist tradition? Do all Arminians agree with "Prevenient Grace"? Do any Calvinists accept it? </font>[/QUOTE]I agree with it.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  6. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    Southern,

    John 6:39. The Father will give to the Son only those who have received the Son. [John 1:12] God never forces sinners into sainthood. Romans 8:29 points out that God the Father has seen through the entire historicity of humankind, those who will have had faith. On this basis the Father gives the Son His eternal brotherhood and heritage for Heaven. {Foreknowledge}

    Election is based on faith. Election is based on the human response to the hear or written Gospel of Christ our Redeemer.
     
  7. John Gilmore

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    Whatever the definition, "Prevenient Grace" is synergy. After the initial grace is supplied, man must do something before the saving grace is granted.
     
  8. Ray Berrian

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    'Whatever the definition, "Prevenient Grace" is synergy. After the initial grace is supplied, man must do something before the saving grace is granted.'

    Ray: Exactly right!

    Although we express this truth I am not comfortable, at all, with the wording especially the grace word in Prevenient Grace, because it infers that grace is given before the human volitional choice is experienced.

    God goes before and around the sinner to his mind or heart in convicting and convincing that sinner of his inner need of making his peace with God. Grace is what God does when the sinner opens his life to Almighty God.

    The word, Synergism, is a fancy word for what the Lord does in our hearts and lives while sinners only after our choice is made for Him. There is grace offered but not experienced until the sinner opens His life to God through faith. [Romans 5:1]
     
  9. Ray Berrian

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    Synergetic means from the Greek: synergeitkos--to work with, cooperate; the French meaning 'working together.

    God never demands a response from His elect, He calls for a response, a cooperation in receiving His Son. [John 1:12; I John 5:12]

    'He who has the Son has life; and he who hath not the Son of God has not life.'

    Acts 2:21 says, 'And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the Name of the Lord shall be saved.' If the sinner does not call on the Lord, no grace is imparted to the lost soul.
     
  10. npetreley

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    You just defined faith as a work.
     
  11. Southern

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    Ray,
    you said:
    John 6:39. The Father will give to the Son only those who have received the Son.

    This seems to be in direct opposition to the order presented in John 6:37. Notice: All the Father Gives the Son will come to Him. The giving precedes the coming in faith.

    How do you explain this?

    By the way, thanks for your input
    May God bless you
     

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