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Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by billwald, Mar 8, 2005.
Believe what?? I understand you do not accept any higher education. True?
Here you go:
Is this under threat from the women yet? Are your numbers falling?
johnp., the answer is a resounding "NO".
I have NEVER heard of a Primitive Baptist woman who ever questioned the bible's stance on this issue.
I don't want to sound chauvenistic, but in the church, our women know their place. I don't mean to make myself or any other man sound any better than any woman, in fact I think a lot of the women of the PB churches could put the knowledge of the bible of many men to shame, but they are so well-versed in the scripture that they know what the roles of a man and a woman are in the church and they abide by those roles.
I thank God that He has allowed us to have such knowledgable women amongst us.
I'm hoping to corner a "slower" one and make her marry me one day.
Same answer here !
Bill, Primitive Baptists do not reject higher education. They do reject the concept that preachers must or even should be seminary-trained to be qualified for ministry, and believe that training in a local church is the proper method.
Even a Bible Baptist like my self can agree with this idea. It maybe the only thing we agree on but I recognize the intelligence of this; Schools don't make good pastors God does.
May Christ Shine His light On Us all;
Thanks for the link.
You sound akin to the (Closed)Plymouth Bretherin.
You apparently come from about the same time.
Hello Bro. James Reed.
You have indeed created heaven on earth.
That's a funny thing that I discovered when this subject came up on a couple of other discussion forums I've been to. The women, or the majority of them, were the fiercest defenders of the doctrine. It came as some surprise to me to discover that while I was trying to raise their position to equality they fought like mad to be subordinate.
What? In shirking their responsibilty and letting men take all the strain? (Do you want to argue it?)
That link that UMP gave.
The idea that the kids should stay with the rest of the Church instead of going out to separate classes is a thing I like the sound of. But the problem I see with it is this; That we have a very busy sunday school (Club) where the children of the Children of God bring their friends who are not from Christian families. These children would not come if they had to sit through sermons instead of doing kid things. How do you find it at your places? Do strangers children come to Church?
We have at our place a new oppotunity to make Sunday morning different. We are stuck in 45 minutes of singing and notices and things and then the kids leave us and we get the sermon unless the Urim and Thummim falls kindly and it's our turn to do the kids stuff!
We have no minister and the congregation take it in turns to give the sermon along with invited speakers. We are a very close knit family. A local Church has asked to merge with us and to set up in a new building. The future is open and our ways are there for the changing. Any suggestions.
The other point was that you use no musical instruments because no record is present in the NT where music was played at meetings. This has a tendency to fracture the OT from the NT. Musical instruments were used in worship in Israel was it not?
One more thing. Good hunting!
And God can do that wherever He wills.
Yes but at least He doesn't make them the way you want them huh!
johnp., godspeed to you and your congregation.
I pray that He will lead yall to make the right decision concerning His church.
With regards to the children, the simple fact is that Jesus and the apostles preached to all who would come to hear them. If the only thing bringing the children in is something entertaining, then I have little hope that they will stay around once they are old enough to be in the preaching service.
As with any other group, our young people stick around as long as the have to, that is as long as their parents make them come to church. When they reach the age to decide for themselves, those who are grounded in the faith from the preaching they've so long will continue to come, but those who want something "entertaining" on a Sunday morning will cease to come.
Personally, I can think of nothing more entertaining to me than to sing the songs of Zion and here the preaching of God my Father.
You also have to remember that our job as a church is not to entertain people or draw them into the church, but rather to give praise, glory, and honor to God and His Son.
When God purposes for those youngsters or oldsters to come in and here His word, then nothing will be more entertaining than that on a Sunday and the "draws" of Sunday School, musical instruments, etc, will not be needed.
If someone is coming to church simply because we have things that make it fun, and not to come and praise God, then they shouldn't have even rolled out of bed to come in the first place.
The way to keep a New Testament church is to abide by those things that the original New Testament church did. Sunday School, musical instruments, etc, were not a part of the worship back then and neither will they be in our churches now.
It has been my experience that once we let one part of the NT worship slip, that the next slip becomes easier and so on. That is why, as time goes on, there are so many different factions of Christianity.
As for instruments, I am of the opinion that if it wasn't shown to be a part of the NT worship, regardless of what it is, then we should abstain from including it in the worship service. Some will argue that silence means it is okay, but I argue that silence means we should shy away from it.
To coincide with the Rodeo being in town this month, the bible doesn't say we shouldn't have a calf scramble in the middle of church, but silence on that issue makes it no more okay than musical instruments.
One of the minor prophets, I forget which at the moment, condemned David for worshipping God with instruments, so evidently it was not even so acceptable in Old Testament times either.
You can find writings of those leaders of all different denominations; Luther, Calvin, etc, who condemned instruments and you can even find dates when instruments were first introduced into different brands of Christianity by doing an online search, or even by searching through the old threads here on the BB about this subject.
It is very apparent by the writings of the early churches, even up through the reformation, that instruments were not popular items in worship to God, and were condemned by most groups.
I think that would suffice to say that the early NT churches did not use instruments.
We should always remember that the church is here for one purpose, which I've already mentioned above, and if anyone is to do any drawing of people into church, it will be God.
If they aren't drawn in by Him, then they shouldn't be there and neither would I want them there.
Our church went through a merger some 15 years ago. If it works out it will be a great blessing on you and your church, but it will be work getting the churches "together". As much as we wouldn't like to think so, both groups will probably have a hard time losing their identities as separate churches. Those in a "leadership" role, whether self made or not, will suddenly become just another member.
It can be very trying, but the benefits of the extended fellowship and your joint love of God and His Son should soon outweigh any differences between the two congregations.
I pray that if it is His will that the two churches will come together as one and prosper under His guiding hand.