Primitive Baptist and Calvinism

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Sis. Sarah, Oct 28, 2007.

  1. Sis. Sarah

    Sis. Sarah
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    Who is a Primitive Baptists on the Board? Can anyone tell me the verses in the Bible where it is interpreted that we are either born, naturally speaking, chosen, saved or not? I find this very interesting and I think I observed this preached at the Primitive Baptist church I visited but I want to ask the Elder about it when I see him again. Anyway, can anyone give a crash course on this doctrine as it is practiced today? I don't want to argue with anyone, I just want to learn. :wavey:
     
  2. Gold Dragon

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    I'm not a Primitive Baptist and am not aware of how they practice today so I can't help you in that regard.

    But the historical document that most strongly defines the reason Primitive Baptists came to be is the Black Rock Address created in 1832. I'm not sure how much of an impact it plays in today's Primitive Baptist churches.

    Its contents primarily address
    1. Opposition to Tract Societies, with acknowledgment of some benefits to tracts and individuals/groups who publish.
    2. Opposition to Sunday School, with exception to schools for the purpose of training kids to read.
    3. Opposition to Bible Societies
    4. Opposition to Mission Societies and missionaries with some "honorable exceptions"
    5. Opposition to Theological Schools, particularly with the association of theology as a human science.
    6. Opposition to Protracted meetings which I understand to be evangelistic meetings.
    Some of the reasons for their opposition included claims that:
    • that is not the way it is done in scripture
    • God doesn't need our help with these human structures in accomplishing his goals
    • there is too much potential for abuse of power in the hands of a few
    • many other reasons
    While it doesn't exactly address the doctrine of predestination, it gives us an idea of the thought processes of Primitive Baptists and there are some passages quoted in the address. I hope this helps and maybe some Primitive Baptists could chime in about how things are today.
     
    #2 Gold Dragon, Oct 29, 2007
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  3. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon
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    Just read some posts of yours in the Baptist History forum and realized you are well aware of the Black Rock Address and its contents. Sorry for posting this redundantly.
     
  4. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    Hello, Sister Sarah.

    I am Primivite Baptist.

    The elect were born redeemed already, saved, in the eternal sense.

    This is because if you study the Bible very carefully you will note that the Lord God has a Book, and it is called the Book of Life.

    In that Book, God wrote down the names of His people, and the writing down of these names occurred in eternity past, before the foundation of the world.

    Interspersed among the Scriptures are references to His people whom He called out by name in eternity past. Note that the Triune God, in the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ, when speaking of those whom the Father gave Him, and whom He says the Father will draw to Him, never referred to these as goats, but always as My Sheep.

    As the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, His blood already covered these people, ensuring their entry into eternity (pre-cross) in His kingdom. This blood, spilt in eternity past, before the foundation of the world, ensured the entry of Enoch, Elijah, Moses and all old testament saints everywhere in the world at any given age, into heaven.

    At the cross, the act of redemption for all His people, all meaning Jews and Gentiles, whose names are in the Book of Life, and who are scattered in all points of the compass (not only in Israel and the recorded Bible lands), was completed, here in time. Nothing else is to be added, nor subtracted, nor multiplied, or divided.

    He has finished redeeming all that are His, just as the damnation of those that are not His, are complete and final.

    Proof of this is that at the Great White Throne judgment, the Book of Life is opened, and as a final act of proving that the damned are not His and never were His, the names are read, and whosoever's name was not found written in that Book (written from before the foundation of the wordl) was cast into the lake of fire.

    However, while all that are His are redeemed, not all the redeemed have been regenerated.

    We need to understand that salvation, and regeneration, are two different actions altogether.

    Regeneration is through the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit alone, who employs NO MEANS. He does not use the gospel to regenerate, He does not use preaching to regenerate, He does not use human voice to regenerate, He does not use tracts to regenerate, He does not use testimonies to regenerate.

    He employs absolutely no means at all, save His own power, and He chooses the when, where, and how.

    He was doing His work of regeneration in old times, in Jesus' times, in the apostles' times, and still does His work of regeneration in our times.

    The preaching of the gospel was given to those who have been called into the ministry for the growth, encouragement, instruction, comfort, hope, discipline, correction, and such, of those who are His, who name His Name, and call upon Him.

    The preaching of the gospel is intended for the timely salvation, not the eternal salvation, of His people.

    I hope this helps.
     
    #4 pinoybaptist, Oct 29, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2007
  5. Tom Butler

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    Pinoy, I want to make sure I understand your position.

    Are you saying the following:

    Since the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, his people were redeemed from the foundation of the world. Thus, in the mind of God, they are saved eternally from eternity. This includes Old Testament saints.

    In time, the Holy Spirit regenerated, opened minds, hearts and understanding, and brought God's chosen to an understanding of their salvation.

    Please correct me if I have mis-stated.

    Also, please comment on how repentance and faith figure into the process of timely salvation, or if they do at all. If they do not, please comment on those scriptures which seem to teach that they do.

    Thanks for contributing to my understanding of PBs.
     
  6. pinoybaptist

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    Not only in the mind of God, but, as far as God was concerned, their salvation, is a done deal, since all were chosen, and accepted, in Christ. When we mediate on this, we see why there is no elect who will eventually fall.

    But, yes, you have captured the essence of what I am trying to say.


    You are right.

    Repentance and faith does figure in one's timely salvation, AFTER the fact of salvation and of regeneration. While an elect child of God may be born in a different creed, and die in that creed, that will only happen if he does not hear the gospel preached in his lifetime here in time, but his eternal salvation is complete in Christ. Which is one of the reasons why we say, and I think you will agree, that not all the elect will hear the gospel.

    However, I do not believe that an elect child of God will continue in the creed or theology he was born into UPON HEARING the gospel since the Bible says the gospel brings life and immortality to light.

    The fact that a person continually resists the call to repentance and faith by the preached word, and opposes the gospel, illustrates that there is no life and immortality in him at that point in time.


    However (and at this point I speak only for myself), I do not believe in saying that he dies damned, because the Spirit can regenerate His child even at the last nanosecond of life and bring his mind and soul in submission to Christ.
     
  7. Sis. Sarah

    Sis. Sarah
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    WOW! You have my thoughts and my attention, Pinoy. Please tell me more about how salvation and regeneration are different. I read it and the following comments but I still am not sure what you meant and I want to study it in the Scriptures. I have some thoughts on what you wrote which have been with me since I was a young child and how in the world would I have thought such being that I couldn't even read back then. Some amazing things! And our Lord God - He never changes does He!!! With Peace,
     
  8. Tom Butler

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    Actually, I don't agree. I believe that all the elect will hear the gospel, described by Paul (Romans 1:16) as the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes.

    I agree.

    I agree.


    This is consistent with what you believe, but I have to think about this one.
     

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