Private Property Rights and “The Mosque”

Discussion in 'Politics' started by KenH, Aug 15, 2010.

  1. KenH

    KenH
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    Private Property Rights and “The Mosque”

    Posted by Bill Anderson on August 15, 2010 12:54 PM

    Apparently, the lines are drawn with President Obama’s recent declaration of tepid support for the Islamic center to be built near the “Ground Zero” 9-11 site. Many Republicans, obviously, are using this to spread fear and gets votes, but the Democrats easily could debate the GOP on the Republicans’ own intellectual ground, yet it seems that the Dems are incapable of so doing.

    What is that argument? It is the simple invocation of private property rights. (No, the Islamic center would NOT qualify as an “externality” under any current definitions.) However, neither Obama nor his fellow Democrats are willing to do that, since “Progressives” believe that private property rights generally are oppressive and must give way to “public interest” arguments. Now that we have a real-live property rights issue, the Democrats are intellectually bankrupt and the Republicans are outright craven. What a choice.

    - www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/63663.html
     
  2. targus

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    It's not fear.

    It's indignation.

    One can have the right to do something - without it being the right thing to do.

    This is just the wrong thing to do - and it will have the exact opposite effect of their stated purpose.

    A muslim center so close to the 9-11 site will not build tolerance - it will destroy it.

    Perhaps these muslims can demonstrate some tolerance of their own by being tolerant of the feelings of those still offended by the murders of 9-11.
     
  3. Bob Alkire

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    As well as showing some tolerance toward Christians and others in the countries which they come out of.
     
  4. targus

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    Ken, these muslims do have property rights - no one is taking that away from them.

    But the rest of us also have free speech rights.

    Why don't you support our rights to freedom of expression?
     
  5. sag38

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    Ken, these muslims do have property rights - no one is taking that away from them.

    But the rest of us also have expression rights.

    Why don't you support our expression rights?


    Yes, I'd love to hear a response to this question. I'm with C4K, I'd fight for their right to build this mosque even though I think it is very stupid on their part for wanting to do so. This will not build trust of Muslims but further our distrust of them. It seems like a slap in the face of the United States to build this particular mosque.
     
  6. rbell

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    Amazing that Ken, with his libertarian roots, can't tell the difference between "property rights" and "freedom of expression." It is possible for both to co-exist.

    Oh, sorry, I forgot to ask: Ken, are you a libertarian this week? Or is this your week to support Obama?

    I had it set up on my outlook to remind me when you made your change, but since getting my new computer, I haven't kept up with your aisle-switching in recent days.

    Just send me a reminder when you flip-flop your views, so I can respond accordingly.
     
  7. Baptist Believer

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    It seems to me that these Muslims don't feel personally or corporately responsible for the actions of the terrorists.

    To avoid building a community center (or mosque) within a couple of miles of ground zero because of misguided public opinion would likely be construed as an admission of guilt or connection with Al Queda, which would also be counter-productive.

    I do not personally feel responsible for the Ralph "God hates fags" Phelps and his cultic Westboro Baptist Church. I still identify myself as Baptist, minister to homosexuals, and support our military in word and deed.

    Why do we expect Muslims who are also appalled by terrorism to slink away in shame instead of stand up for their faith and try to change people's perceptions?

    I know a few Muslims and have had very good conversations with them about Jesus. There is a great gap between Islam and Christ, but there is no reason for Christians to characterize all Muslims as terrorists with stupid and dishonest characterizations of this project as a "victory mosque" like so many are doing within Christian circles.
     
  8. RAdam

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    We must get this straight immediately: Islam is not a faith. There is only one faith, that is the faith one delivered to the saints. Please do not use the terminology of our pluralistic society. Islam is a false religion. That doesn't mean I need to be hateful to them, but I also don't need to fall into the idea that they have a legit religion.

    Now, Islam is a false religion that teaches winning at all costs. Islam teaches its followers to forcibly convert people. If people won't convert, kill them. That's not to say that all Muslims agree with this, but that is what their false religion and their so called prophet teach.

    Now I don't justify all of the craziness people have toward Islam today, but the fact remains that it is a hateful and ghastly false religion.
     
  9. Bob Alkire

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    If I recall my history correctly even Thomas Jefferson didn't want to mess with them, so our government paid them off to leave our ships alone.

    If I recall from school correctly it is a religion and a political system at the same time. Their history is quite a read.
     
  10. Baptist Believer

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    Nice way to bypass the main point of my post.
    1.) I made no assertion that Islam is true. In fact, I pointed out that there is a great gap between Islam and Christ.
    2.) I think everyone knows what I mean when I use the word “faith” as a synonym for applied religion.
    3.) I think you are straining at gnats to avoid dealing with the points I raised.
    It certainly is a “legit” religion, but it’s not true. (Don’t Christians normally harp on the fact that Christianity is “not a religion, but a relationship”?)

    Why don’t you deal with the issues I raised instead of trying to get me into an argument about the exact nature of Islam?
     
  11. Don

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    One thing I personally know about Muslims: Some are "pew sitters," some say they're Muslim but you'll never see them in the mosque, some are pretty devout followers. And some are downright fanatical.
     
  12. sag38

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    It's the last two that would be of concern.
     
  13. TC2

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    Kind of like Christians.
    You get all kinds of people from all kinds of people.


    (and NO, this is not aimed at anyone here, or that opposes the mosque, just saying not to judge all by some)
     
  14. Don

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    Exactly.

    No matter what religion or denomination they profess. (think "Fred Phelps" and "Army of God")
     
  15. billwald

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    It must be convenient and profitable for citizens to decide that square block of Manhattan is "sacred ground." I understand that many,many square blocks of battle sites from Lincoln's War have been and are being paved over for shopping malls and big box stores.
     
  16. Baptist Believer

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    Yep.

    How do they feel about a strip club on that "hallowed ground"?
     
  17. Bro. Curtis

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    It does not help my opinion of "peaceful" Muslims, when they will not denounce CAIR, the unindicted co-conspirators in the Hamas-funding case.

    I am glad for the suspicion. They can start calling us intolerant when I see Baptist Churches in their countries.

    I look forward to the people of N.Y.C. taking care of this.
     
  18. matt wade

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    Islam is a false religion straight from Satan himself. With that said, they absolutely have the right to build there.

    I'm in the minority when it comes to religion as well (fundamentalist Baptist). Who's going to protect my freedom to build a fundamental Baptist Church on any property that I can legally purchase? Even when that property might be at the site that some hom0sexuals died at and some people might feel it is inappropriate for "hate filled" fundamental Baptists to build there?
     
  19. Don

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    Exactly. And it's already happened to people who have built crosses, and someone took offense to it.
     
  20. Salty

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    Then if might be best to Wait on the Lord
    Remember our church is not the building, but the people - people who truly love. Paul tells us that if eating meat is a problem for someone - than we should according to I Cor 8:13 not offend him.
     

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