Pro-life Christians harrassed in CT

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by lifeandliberty, Nov 16, 2005.

  1. lifeandliberty

    lifeandliberty
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    In July of 2004, LLM's Truth Truck was pulled over by a Connecticut State Police Officer. This out-of-control Officer demanded that I immediately remove the pro-life messages that were displayed on the truck. He then proceeded to arrest my passenger, Michael Marcavage, charging him with two fabricated crimes. Then I was instructed to leave the State immediately or risk arrest myself.

    Today we received word that the prosecutor was no longer pursuing the case against Michael and entered a nolle prosequi.

    Nolle Prosequi defined:
    Latin for "we shall no longer prosecute." At trial, this is an entry made on the record by a prosecutor in a criminal case stating that he will no longer pursue the matter. An entry of nolle prosequi may be made at any time after charges are brought and before a verdict is returned or a plea entered. Essentially, it is an admission on the part of the prosecution that some aspect of its case against the defendant has fallen apart. Most of the time, prosecutors need a judge’s permission to “nol-pros” a case.

    Click on the link for more information on this case.
    Life and Liberty Ministries
     
  2. Johnv

    Johnv
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    To all who read this thread:

    Life and Liberty Ministries is not an organization that we should be lending an ear to. They are developeing a reputation for harrassment and incivility. Recently, they engaged in harrassment of college students and disruption of the learning environment, and were not forthcoming when asked about it here on this board.

    I find it quite hypicritical that the OP is complaning about pro-life Christians being harrassed, when they themselves have harrassed pro-life Christians. Note in this OP only selective information is being given.

    While we are all in agreement here on the topic of abortion, we should not associate ourselves with those who lack credibility. I believe L&L ministries to be dishonest and disingenuous in their representations. We should refrain from aligning ourselves with a "ministry" that is so poor of a Christian witness, and should refrain from giving this group any more attention.

    http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/3922.html?
     
  3. JGrubbs

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    I remember reading about this case with Michael Marcavage from July of 2004 in some national media. I read the thread from your link Johnv, but saw no reason to believe that L&L ministries is dishonest and disingenuous. Just because some college kid said they were hollering doesn't make it so, you will need something more credible than that.

    I think it's good to see more Christians taking real actions to protest the thousands of babies that are butchered daily in America than to take the approach of the majority of those who fill the pews of churches in America of just praying about the issue a few times a year for 30 years.

    If we don't stand up for these pre-born children, who will?
     
  4. Johnv

    Johnv
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    I consider my firsthand sources not only quite credible, but sincere. I have no reason to question their credibility whatsoever.

    So do I. But to engage in harrassment while doing so is unacceptible, and leaves one's witness suspect. I do find it a bit hypocritical that you will give L&L the benefit of the doubt, but you will question the sincerity of a prolife Christian college students.
    By allo means, stand up for them. But be ethical in your stand.
     
  5. Matt Black

    Matt Black
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    Hmmm. Agree with Johnv. The OP seems to be crusading/ self-publicising by the OPer.
     
  6. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
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    <img src =/curtis.gif>

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    We call it "blog-pimping" in the right-wing cybersphere.
     
  7. Matt Black

    Matt Black
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    Ah, that's a new one on me. "Term go in mental dictionary..."
     
  8. HankD

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    Are you the driver or are you quoting him?

    If you are the driver, what did the signs say?

    What would you have been charged with had you stayed in Connecticut?

    Is Michael Marcavage going to file a charge of false arrest or harassment?

    HankD
     
  9. lifeandliberty

    lifeandliberty
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    Back up your statements. You are bearing false witness againt me.

    Give an instance when I have spoken against any pro-life Christian.

    16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud F21 look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
     
  10. Matt Black

    Matt Black
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    Are you using these boards for your own propaganda purposes? If so, would you be happy with my advertising my legal services here?
     
  11. HankD

    HankD
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    Define "ethical".

    HankD
     
  12. lifeandliberty

    lifeandliberty
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    Are you the driver or are you quoting him?

    If you are the driver, what did the signs say?

    What would you have been charged with had you stayed in Connecticut?

    Is Michael Marcavage going to file a charge of false arrest or harassment?

    HankD
    </font>[/QUOTE]I was driving the truck.

    We were returning from five days on the street in Boston at the Democratic National Convention.

    One sign read, "Kerry Edwards, A Bloddy Team for a Bloody America" It displayed a baby murdered by "legal" abortion.

    Another sign read, "The Choice generation" It displayed three babies who had been murdered by "legal" abortion. 1st, 2nd and 3rd trimesters.

    The Officer was vague and never said what they would charge me with. He jsut demanded that I drive soutbound until I cross the state line. He said that he would follow and if I took any exits I would be arrested.

    We are currently looking at our options.
     
  13. HankD

    HankD
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    I salute you for your courage and non-violent stand against the shedding of innocent blood.

    HankD
     
  14. Johnv

    Johnv
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    Ethical would include (but not be limited to) Peaceful, nonviolent, and within the limits of the law and scripture.
     
  15. Johnv

    Johnv
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    L&L did so at William & Mary College. Several Christnan members of the college's prolife group were shouted down and told they were going to hell. That is a fact. Whether it was you to did this, I cannot say.

    As for the incident here, many counties and cities have laws that include depictions of dismemberment as obscene, and therefore illegal. Pictures of dismembered fetuses fall into that. If your truck had pictures of dismembered fetuses, it's possible that they violated the law here, though apparantly unintentionally. If this is the case, it would explain your being pulled over. It would also explain why the DA chose not to prosecute in this case. I'm just surmising based on what you've told us. If this is the case, what you probably should have done was complied, fixed the situation, and continued your ministry.

    As far as your passenger, you didn't say what he was charged with, which leaves us being a bit suspect on your claim. You did say that you were not told what the charge was, but there is no legal requirement for an officer telling you what the charge is. That requirement is typically done at booking.

    Look, I have no problem with you speaking out against abortion. It is my hope, however, that you do so within the cofines of what the law permits. Crying "harrassment" every time you have a run in with the law simply leaves you looking like the boy who cried wolf. Heck, I'd even be willing to financially support your ministry with part of my tithe and offering if you did so.
     
  16. lifeandliberty

    lifeandliberty
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    L&L did so at William & Mary College. Several Christnan members of the college's prolife group were shouted down and told they were going to hell. That is a fact. Whether it was you to did this, I cannot say.

    As for the incident here, many counties and cities have laws that include depictions of dismemberment as obscene, and therefore illegal. Pictures of dismembered fetuses fall into that. If your truck had pictures of dismembered fetuses, it's possible that they violated the law here, though apparantly unintentionally. If this is the case, it would explain your being pulled over. It would also explain why the DA chose not to prosecute in this case. I'm just surmising based on what you've told us. If this is the case, what you probably should have done was complied, fixed the situation, and continued your ministry.

    As far as your passenger, you didn't say what he was charged with, which leaves us being a bit suspect on your claim. You did say that you were not told what the charge was, but there is no legal requirement for an officer telling you what the charge is. That requirement is typically done at booking.

    Look, I have no problem with you speaking out against abortion. It is my hope, however, that you do so within the cofines of what the law permits. Crying "harrassment" every time you have a run in with the law simply leaves you looking like the boy who cried wolf. Heck, I'd even be willing to financially support your ministry with part of my tithe and offering if you did so.
    </font>[/QUOTE]The claims about W&M are bogus.

    Photos of aborted babies can be displayed in every county of every State in this Union. It is Constitutionally protected. This has been settled in every case that addresses it.
     
  17. HankD

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    I know you are pro-life John and that's a good thing, but myriads of Christians have died because they disobeyed the law.

    For instance: The Martyrs who would not bend the knee to Caesar as a god (or his more modern counterpart, the Holy Roman Empire popes [Pontifex Maximus] of the Crusades and Inquisitions) and were crucified, burned, strangled, quartered, disemboweled, fed to wild beasts, etc.

    Or the Christians of the Communists killing fields.

    Most were given opportunity to recant.
    They chose to be "unethical", break the law and suffer the ultimate consequence.

    Matthew 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.

    It's even worse in the 21st century, not satisfied just to kill them, the baby cadavers and body parts are merchandised.

    HankD
     
  18. Johnv

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    So you say, but you have motive to say so. I have no reason to disbelieve W&M prolife Christian students. They have no motive to lie.
    You are correct on this. Interestingly, the ACLU represented one such prolife activist. Whoda thunk? However, any such displays (or, for that matter, any public utilization of first amendment rights), cannot be performed to the point of being a public nuisance. I know in one nearby city there is a law that prohibits "roving advertising trucks", that is, trucks that drive around with billboards attached (any such billboards cannot exceed certain size limitations). The reason is because of the documented traffic and congestion they cause. Whether we like it or not, a person cannot claim Amendment I to violate those local statutes. Abortion protesting is not exception.
    That point is neither here nor there on this topic, though. Abortion protesters have the same Amendment I rights as anyone else. However, they do not have any additional rights just because of the subject matter. There is simply no reason I can see that peaceful protest on this topic needs to exceed or violate the law.
     
  19. HankD

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    To save a human life an ambulance driver will break the law and exceed the speed limit.

    Jesus used the example of pulling a donkey out of the ditch on the sabbath to illustrate a similar principle of breaking the Law to save even the life of a dumb animal.

    HankD
     
  20. hillclimber

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    As would we.
     

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