Pro-Life Means Anti-Drone

Discussion in 'Politics' started by poncho, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. poncho

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    If life is sacred, how can we justify the random killing of innocent children?

    My pro-life position is simple: Life is sacred. Life is so sacred that for it to be taken there must be an extremely good reason—and there are few good reasons. Convenience is certainly not a good reason. This innate sanctity of human life is something virtually all civilized people recognize despite one’s politics. Even those who identify as pro-choice are only comfortable with abortion to the degree that they can downplay or dismiss the humanity of the subject at hand.

    CONTINUE . . .
     
  2. Revmitchell

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    No one is randomly killing innocent children.
     
  3. poncho

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    Do you find it difficult to breathe Rev?
     
  4. Squire Robertsson

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    Poncho, collateral damage and casualties have been a part of warfare since the first recorded (not to say such didn't occur before this incident) Abraham went off to rescue Lot.
    In the case of drone attacks, yes innocents are killed and injured. But, far fewer innocents are casualties than in previous bombing campaigns with dumb bombs. And there is nothing random about it, the folks you are speaking about are located in the kill zone centered on one of this countries enemies. It would be a whole lot cleaner if our enemies would locate themselves away from non-combatants. But, that's not how they operate.
     
  5. poncho

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    How do you define enemy Squire?
     
  6. Squire Robertsson

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    First we are not dealing with an enemy represented by a nation-state or even a would be nation-state. We are dealing with the modern equivalent of land "pirates". Unless, you think that if the US withdrew its troops and financial interests to within its borders the Salafists would cease their attacks. I on the other hand believe that the Salafists look at our very existence as a non-Salafist Muslim country as a cause de guerre. As such they will keep on attacking our country at home and aboard.
     
  7. poncho

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    I see. So our enemies are Salafists then. You seem to have a head for reason Squire so maybe you can explain this to me.

    Why do we fight against these Salafists in places like Iraq and Afghanistan but train them, fund them and arm them in places like Libya and Syria?

    Seems to me that these Salafists are cited as the biggest threat to our security when the government wants to pass laws like the patriot acts, military commissions act and the NDAA that curb our civil liberties but when it comes to overthrowing other governments like Qaddafi's and Assad's they are our biggest allies.

    How can these Salafists go from being our enemy to our friends and back to our enemies again? It would seem that they have multiple uses depending on the conditions. They are our friends when our government wants to overthrow another government but they are our enemy when the government wants to pass unconstitutional laws and expand the ever growing surveillance grid and police state here at home.

    So which is it are they our enemy or are they our friend? That can't be both can they?
     
    #7 poncho, Oct 31, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2012
  8. Revmitchell

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    I see what your mistake is. You thought you were talking with a reasonable person. I get it.
     
  9. poncho

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    I am a very reasonable person Rev. Why do you think I asked the Squire to answer my questions and not you? I reasoned that you had no interest in this thread other than to pop in and act condescending. :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #9 poncho, Oct 31, 2012
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  10. Oldtimer

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    Take a look at the article, folks.

    It's an eye catching headline to make the point quoted below.

    How often do we see "the little children" being used to reinforce opinions on both sides of issues that we face today?
     
  11. saturneptune

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    It might not solve the problem, but why do we have a presence in any Muslim country, states that have nothing in common with us, especially freedom and liberty? What right does the United States have putting its stamp of approval on sovereign states?

    We need to leave Muslim countries diplomatically and private business interest wise. We leave them alone, and they leave us alone. If they choose not to do that after we have left, then we blow said state, group, "pirates" off the map. While we are at it, withdraw from the UN and send the organization to Iran.
     
  12. HankD

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    Sure they can...

    http://www.newspeakdictionary.com/ns-dict.html

    HankD
     
  13. OldRegular

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    I believe there is merit to poncho's OP! Under Obammy the drone strikes have escalated deramatically. Reportedly he is the one who pulls the trigger for each strike. The question is: Does the intelligence warrant this escalation or is Obammy pulling a Bill Clinton magnified 1000 fold?
     
  14. Tom Bryant

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    I understand this sounds really good, but killing the people responsible is what we ought to be doing. And that requires a presence either overt or covert. It is impossible to do that only through electronic intelligence. It requires boots on the ground.

    This world is not a live and let live world. That ended over 100 years ago if it ever really existed.

    How many people are you willing to kill if a nation is run, as is Iran, as a terrorist state? And what are you going to do afterwards?

    The problem with much of the US foreign policy is that it is too focused on here and now rather than any kind of future plan.
     
  15. saturneptune

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    We have no right to dictate the internal affairs of independent nations. Call me whatever you want, a nationalist, an isolationist, or an America first person. There is nothing more expensive to me than the blood of an American citizen. You ask how many people I am willing to kill? Enough to have prevented 4000+ American soldiers in Iraq, a somewhat lower number in Afghanastan, 283 soldiers in Beruit, and the four recently killed in Libya.

    I do not care what ended 100 years ago, I care about American lives, and how the Constitution says to govern this nation. That does not mean a mindset run by the UN, where we stick our nose in every nation on earth to impose our values. The Constitution is quite clear on foreign policy. Treaties are bilateral or a small group of nations ratified by the Senate. We fund the UN with my tax dollars in the millions of dollars every year, and they are nothing but a forum to belittle the United States. I can count our true allies on two hands, Israel, England, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Poland, maybe France, and some other Eastern European nations. These are countries that share our love of freedom and liberty.

    Muslim countries have nothing in common with us, and that is their right. Stay away from us and we will stay away from you. Mess with us and you are history.
     
  16. Revmitchell

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    It doesn't work like that. I ran is a terrorist state and right now Islam wants to take over the world. They have never in all their history nor are they now want to just be left alone and they will leave us alone. We are being forced into conflict with Islam more that the left (or infowars) wants anyone to know.
     
  17. saturneptune

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    All I am saying is what have probably 6000-7000 American deaths in the Middle East produced. If it is our destruction they want, then what did these lives do to slow that? If they choose not to leave us alone, then wipe them out. Besides that, we have no presence in Iran. All the negotiations or sanctions in the world are not going to change their mind.

    In addition to that, it might not be the way it works, but relations with foreign countries are suppose to be guided by the Constitution.
     
    #17 saturneptune, Oct 31, 2012
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  18. billwald

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    >No one is randomly killing innocent children

    Agree! The US government intentionally commits act which will kill children under the rationale better to kill sand citizen children than have sand citizens kill American children. In other words, humans are not "created equal" except in the sense that human females are still required for the birth process.
     
  19. poncho

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    I think maybe the Rev is missing the bigger picture here SN. I'll bet ya dollar to doughnuts if he had to live like the Pakistani's and their children do always wondering when it'll be their turn to be blown to bits by an unseen and unheard missile he'd be terrorized.

    Maybe Iran is a terrorist state but what are we? Are not these drone strikes a form of terrorism also? It was the United States that used false flag terrorism in Iran in 1953 to over throw it's government and install the Shah. Then we turn around and call Iran a terrorist state? We expect them to forget and be nice? Just because we have forgotten doesn't mean the Iranians have. We expect the world to see us as saviors when we act like this?

    We use terrorism every day in one form or another in our "foreign policy". Either with sanctions that kill children. 500,000 of them in Iraq alone! And we expect their surviving relatives to respect us and be nice after that? Or we drop bombs on them regardless of international law if they don't conform to our demands and then we expect them to forget it and be friendly?

    The thing I can't understand is how people can look at our foreign policy and not the see the total hypocrisy in it.
     
    #19 poncho, Oct 31, 2012
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  20. Revmitchell

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    the problem with sanctions is the corruption in the UN. Otherwise it would not take long for them to work.
     

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