"Promise left us...

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by skypair, Mar 7, 2007.

  1. skypair

    skypair
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    ...any of you seem to come short."

    Tom ... sent me a CD on the Catholic view of the pretribulation rapture that I listened to somewhat tiredly -- and my meditations on it were somewhat disturbing to me. Listening to the tape, it occurred to me that, concerning rapture timing -- do you get what you believe if Jesus comes back pretrib and you are still alive? Do the "scoffers... saying, 'Where is the sign of His coming'" (2Pet 3:3) get tribulation and the believers in it get taken? Jesus once said, "According to your faith be it unto you." There IS some correspondence between what we believe and what we get, right?

    First, I thought about Heb 4. Remember the children of Israel couldn't enter into God's rest because of unbelief? They were "saved" out of Egypt -- just not entered into "God's rest." Then Paul says these ominous words, "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it." (Heb 4:1-2)

    What similar promise has been left to us? John 14:2-3, "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." And so what does Paul mean in 4:11 "Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief?" Does it not mean we need to study the promises left to us lest we "fall after the same example of unbelief?" That's a scary thought, isn't it?!

    And think this also -- Paul, speaking to the Thessalonians said, "Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us,..." 2Thes 1:6-7 This seems to me to say that we will be "resting" ("worthy of the kingdom of God," 1:5) with Paul while the earth is in tribulation. Isn't Paul speaking about the pretrib rapture here? Sure! And in 1Cor 15:23-24, 51-56, 2Cor 5:4, Phil 3:21, 1Thes 4:16-17, 2Thes 2:6-7, Titus 2:13!

    In fact, just as Israel had two witnesses in the wilderness who had "spied out the land," Caleb and Joshua, we have our own TWO WITNESSES, Paul and John! Both went to heaven to "scope out" the promises!! Paul in 2Cor 12:2-3 with his testimony of it in Heb 12:22-24 and John in Rev 4-5! Guys, do you believe the "spies?" Do you believe John's testimony in John 14:2-3? Do you believe Paul's testimony already mentioned?

    Here's another scary thought: Luke 17:28-30 -- "as it was in the days of Lot." Lot went out -- then Sodom was destroyed. But there was one in the "party" that didn't get out of Sodom on that day, wasn't there? Lot's wife. Was she a "ensamples:... written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come?" 1Cor 10:11 I never have perfectly figured out why she looked back and what it should mean to us, but here seems to be an application -- to warn us of promises of escape which WE "should seem to come short of."

    I'm not certain I want you to believe this as much as I want you to think about it. I want you to consider it along with whatever scriptural evidence you have and let the Spirit speak. Right now, I believe some take the thought of a pretribulation rapture too lightly.

    skypair
     
    #1 skypair, Mar 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 7, 2007
  2. James_Newman

    James_Newman
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    I absolutely believe the pre-trib rapture is conditional.
    Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
     
  3. npetreley

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    I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture. We're not spared tribulation, we're spared wrath.
     
  4. James_Newman

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    We aren't spared anything if we aren't accounted worthy.
     
  5. skypair

    skypair
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    ...

    Labor, men, lest any fall short of a promise left to you. There are promises of gifts of "faith" and of "word of wisdom" and "word of knowledge" (1Cor 12:8) that some here haven't exercised yet or they would know that truth regarding the mysteries and parables left to us, including the mystery of the rapture.

    Prewrath is not rapture timing -- it is rapture conditioning. As such, there is all sorts of wrath it could be associated with. According to scriptural rapture timing, we're either raptured pretrib or, failing the rapture, resurrected to earth postrib with Israel.

    skypair
     

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