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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Amy.G, Oct 24, 2008.
Where does the bible say that there will be a one world government and one currency?
It doesn't, that is coming from the make-believe world of Dispensationalism.
Interesting. Maybe that's why I can't find it? :laugh:
Any dispies want to tackle it?
First, I guess this means that "dispensationalists" actually believe that The Revelation is part of the sacred canon, but you don't.
You know what? Your's is a very sick commentary on the holy word of God, sir!! I pray I may never meet you.
Tare both mentioned in Rev 13. "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him,..." Rev 13:8
"And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed [government function, as we found out with Jesus]. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name [i.e. credit card]." Rev 13:15-16
Amy --- you seem to have a penchant for believing these abherrant thoughts, don't you?
Who said I believed any thoughts? I just asked a question. :wavey:
Not all dispensationalists say this.
Amy, the passage in Rev. is what some believe is talking about a one-world currency or some kind of mark you must have in order to buy and sell. We don't know exactly what it means but people speculate.
The one-world gov't idea comes from passages about the beast in Rev. which some believe sound like someone who is taking control.
Personally, I think that we cannot imagine the exact scenario foretold here.
Preterists believe this has already happened, and I think that is partly true. But what did happen is only a foreshadowing of what is to come.
Thanks Marcia. That is pretty much how I see it. I can't find any scripture that states clearly that there will be a world wide government and currency and that one man will run it. I think it has been assumed as such. I agree with you that we cannot see it exactly. I was just interested if there was a specific scripture regarding this scenario because I haven't found it.
Does the one world religion statements fall under the same category?
From reading Gibbons "Rise and Fall...", the "arrangement" in ancient Rome was that you could worship your own god as long as you also took an oath, signed a document, or offered a sacrifice to Caesar. It was apparently pretty easy to get out of it, though. All you had to do is abandon your property and head for the Barbarian territories.
Rome did make a special exception for the Jews until the Christian church came along which appeared to them to be connected the Judaism.
I believe it will be much the same way during the tribulation. In fact, I believe that the "iron and clay mixed" in the feet of the Dan 2 image indicate that Christianity, Judaism, and Islam will all be accepted "sub-religions" of revived Rome for a while.
From your response it looks like the answer is yes that there is no biblical support for this made up concept.
We accept literal prophecy of an era before the Lord's return for His kingdom described in great detail in Rev 13.
The world's new religion: And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and hewas allowed to continue 3 1/2 years And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
The world's new leader: And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
The world's new political/economic system: And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Thankfully if one keeps reading, they will see ANOTHER one-world king of kings and lord of lords, Jesus Christ, returning to establish HIS mediatorial kingdom!!
Using such sharp language on a theological question that is open to interpretation and not an essential for salvation is not appropriate.
Sorry, not you Dr Bob. We posted at the same time.
What concept are you talking about? One world religion? Read my earlier post.
Do you believe there is apostacy even among believers, satnep?
Jump over to 2Tim 2:16-18 and then read 1Tim 1:19-20
"But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. "
Seems like Hymenaeus and Philetus were what we call "preterists." Not a salvation issue at all, is it? Yet look how "sharply" Paul dealt with them!
"Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."
Paul did not consider preterism to be an "interpretational" issue. I don't believe dispensationalism is either. You are either saved EXACTLY like the OT saints and observe their OT religion (the Mosaic law) OR you are dispensationally freed from the "law" as Paul told the Galations they were!
Finally, what "turning one over to Satan" meant was ex-communicating them from the church (Cf. 1Cor 5:5)!! Sounds very "harsh" in today's church where we can basically believe what we want to believe if I claim the my interpretation is "by the Spirit" eh?
BTW, FACTS don't require interpretation and the dispensational differences between OT and NT are FACTS!
Young's Literal Translation
Rev 13:8 And bow before it shall all who are dwelling upon the land, whose names have not been written in the scroll of the life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world;
The word "earth" as used in Revelation is found below:
1) arable land
2) the ground, the earth as a standing place
3) the main land as opposed to the sea or water
4) the earth as a whole
4a) the earth as opposed to the heavens
4b) the inhabited earth, the abode of men and animals
5) a country, land enclosed within fixed boundaries, a tract of land, territory, region
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: contracted from a root word
Something the LaHaye Prophecy Bible doesn't tell you is that it can be just as easily interpreted "land" as YLT does. The land could be the land of Palestine or the Roman Empire.
Here is what Scofield says:
In the sense of the present world-system, the ethically bad sense of the word, refers to the "order," "arrangement," under which Satan has organized the world of unbelieving mankind upon his cosmic principle of force, greed, selfishness, ambition, and pleasure. (Mat_4:8); (Mat_4:9); (Joh_12:31); (Joh_14:30); (Joh_18:36); (Eph_2:2); (Eph_6:12); (1Jo_2:15-17). This world-system is imposing and powerful with armies and fleets; is often outwardly religious, scientific, cultured, and elegant; but, seething with national and commercial rivalries and ambitions, is upheld in any real crisis only by armed force, and is dominated by Satanic principles.
Scofield uses the wrong word. He uses kosmos instead of ge. His Bible is what was used in the early part of the 1900's to spread this fantasy.
Your opinion only, not a fact. Means nothing.
I second Dr. Bob :thumbs:
It seems pretty straightforward, IMO. To state it is referring to a land, makes no sense if referring to a nation only. "Upon the land" would even translate as everyone on the earth anyway.