Proverbs 22:6

Where did I ever make such a statement that you could not ever interpret scripture literally? Did I not make several statements that scripture must be interpreted in light of its historical context?

Perhaps you should not stick so close to Darby who was not a Baptist and had no theological training. Most of those who went to schools who teach such things cannot even follow his system. It was one of his followers who promoted the "gap theory" in interpreting Genesis.

Take a look at some of Robertson's books. One of them which promoted interpretation in light of the historical context rather than allegory is Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research by A.T. Robertson.

You can find it at http://www.amazon.com/dp/0805413081/?tag=baptis04-20

and

http://www.christianbook.com/Christ...=162998&event=ESRCN&item_code=WW&view=details

http://www.christianbook.com/Christ...=134183&event=ESRCN&item_code=WW&view=details

 

Linda and I do not follow Darby's teachings. You are really grasping gb.

 

You must literally read what I wrote and not read into it what you think. That is the very thing you are guilty of doing with Proverbs. You have read into Proverbs what you think and not any evidence to support your opinions. Facts are not opinions but truth.

If you believe that scripture written in the past is living and active then it is impossible as you suggest. It is still living and active today for righteous obedient living unlike the dead would suggest. Scripture cannot mean what it was never meant to mean. What it means is not dependent on what we think but what God intended at the time. Anything written in the past must be interpreted as it was written in the past tense not in today's culture with a Greek philosophy but rather in light of a Jewish culture. For example Proverbs is Jewish poetry and must be not be interpreted as American poetry. Scripture is never to be interpreted by what it means to me but rather what it means. I have seen too many Bible studies led by men who ask the people in the Bible study about what it means to them. What scripture teaches and means is not dependent on what it means to someone but rather what it meant then and then applied to today's culture.

You have not given any reasons why Proverbs must be taken literally. You can arbitrarily take Proverbs literally about as much as you would Is. 40:31. There are acceptable rules of grammar and interpretation in every language. It seems to me that you are flying by the seat of your pants and just because you think you are right everyone else is wrong. I see no evidence to support your method or belief in anything I have not read anything or any copies of documents from that time period to indicate that Proverbs are anything more than Proverbs of that time. Even today nobody would even expect to interpret a proverb in our culture as always proven correct 100% all of the time. The Bible is full of idiomatic expresssions, etc. and cannot be interpreted literally simply because they are words but must be takes as idioms.

The first part of Proverbs 22:6 is a command. I cannot think of one instance in scripture where a command and a promise are in the same verse. The word for train is only used four times in the Bible. It is used the other three times translated as dedicate.

 

Darby started dispensationalism.

If you do not follow Darby then must I assume you follow the ever changing dispensationalism theories throughtout the past forty years?

The posted part about hermeneutics stated to interpret scripture in light of dispensationalism. So how is that stretching?

So now lets get down to some historical information about Proverbs. I cannot think of any that you have given. If you can give some beyond your opinion then we can discuss te matter.

It appears that you have given a lot of your opinion but nothing to support that from scripture or any other supporting evidence. our interpretation of Proverbs 22:6 other than to say you believe it. I just happen to believe on the basis of historical evidence that the way you interpret Proverbs is making God's word to be a lie and soemthing it is not. I believe you have made God's word to be a lie and not what God wanted. That is a serious offense. A lot of Christians communicate their ignorance to the world and expect them to believe it as though they will believe anything they are told without any study.

You have refused to address the issues. Until you do that how can you expect anyone to believe what you do. God's word communicates the message God wanted but you seem to be unable to give a reason for your belief. It seems to me that you have failed to consider what we have tried to communicate to you. If what you believe is true then there would not be any holes in it. You have not addressed any of the holes we see.

 

Not one instance of a command and a promise in the same verses?

I can think of several off the top of my head.

Honor thy parents (command) that thy days may be long upon the earth (promise).

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (command) and thou shalt be saved (promise).

Genesis 31:3 God to Jacob to return to the land of his fathers (command) and I will be with thee (promise).

There are many many more instances of God giving commands and promises with those commands.'

Why do I take Proverbs 22:6 literally? because it is God's Word. God does not lie.

 

So are you saying a marytyr does not exist? Is it possible that you are saying because it is a promise that one who follows Christ will always live a long life? I am wondering how that would agree with what happened to so many Christians under communism.

Why I regard Proverbs 22:6 as God's word is because God intended those wise sayins as principles for godly living but they are not absolutes.Anyone can think of numerous instances where if they were always true then they would be a lie.

So if you believe that honoring your parents would produce a long life then also prove how a persaon who honors his parents and walks with God who died at age 25 by being murderd would agree with that verse being a promise. Maybe I am missing something. So could you explain that to me.

Is it possible that we do not understand what you mean by a promise? When I look at a promise I think of it as being true 100% of the time without any exceptions.

 

Look guys (and gals), you can deny the promises of God if you wish. I choose to believe every one.

God is not a man that He should lie. If He said something will happen as a result of an action it will happen... either that or God is a liar and not to be trusted.

One can deny rewards for obedience or deny judgment for disobedience if one wants, but both results will happen just as God declared they will.

 

Nobody ever claimed that God would ever lie. Nobody ever claimed anything about judgments and rewards. We never dealt with James. We are wanting you to apply your theology. If what you claim is a promise then it should work in every case. Don't promises work 100% of the time. Principles do not always come true 100% of the time.

By your claim you have made God out to be a liar simply because you have misinterpreted a passage and made a claim that even God does not support in scripture. Proverbs one calls them proverbs. Now you make the claim thta proiverbs are alwatys promises. A simple dictionary of any kind will tell oyu thta is not the case. Historically proverbs are not promises. We have asked you some very simple questions and asked for your answers in how your theology and interpretation would work out in real life. Do you not think that Christianity works in the real world?

Why do you keep ignoring the issues?

 

I have not made Him a liar. He said if the child is trained in the way he should go when he is old he will not depart from it. That is a promise.

End of debate as far as I am concerned. You don't believe it to be a promise, that is your problem, not mine.

 

Your idea of perfection is not at all what the Bible teaches.

James 1:4, "But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing."

So by your claim I have made God to be a liar? I noticed that you were careful not to make such a claim. I made the claim that you made God out to be a liar by your misinterpretation and misapplication. You have been unable to even give one reason for your faith in regards to Proverbs 22:6. Yet you have an entire Bible to search out and an entire creation God created and you are unable to give one reason for your faith other than to say that's the way it is? You are right and everyone else is wrong and that's it? You are not doing as God commanded to give a reason for your faith. You have not given one shred of evidence to prove that my claim or anyone else's claim is false. In fact you cannot give one explanation on how your theology would be worked out in real life. Jesus gave us a real life example. Yet you claim that anyone who perfectly trains their child will have a perfect child. Can you give one example from the Bible of anyone (God, Jesus, or anyone else who ever accomplished such a things as you claim with a 100% record?

I hate to tell you but you have bought into the world's thinking of why kids and people fail. You give very reason why kids can blame their parents for their disoberdience.

You never explained why there are disobedient parents and obedient children.

 

There are some non-believers I have talked with who have asked the question, "How long?" It is people like you who cause non-believers to questions the Bible. I have never had one non-Christian ever question me when I tell them that Proverbs are principles. They get their question answered and move onto the gospel.

I believe God but believe you are misinformed and refuse to apply your theology in the real world in such a way that God's word always works.

 

This sounds like a broken record.

The only one who isn't keeping his word is the one that said he would not post on this thread anymore.

 

What part of 'will not' do you not understand?

And your accusation was false.

It is not that I have not given reason for my belief in the promise found in Proverbs 22:6, it is that you do not accept it.

Scripture does not say to give an answer for our faith. It says to give an answer for the hope that lies within us.

Wrong. The Bible is right and I believe the Bible.

Again, we are not told to give an answer for the reason for our faith. You are adding to the Word in saying it does.

Actually, I have. You reject it, but I will type it again. Pay attention. "WILL NOT means WILL NOT." It does not mean might.

The Word of God has already explained it. I cannot explain it better than God did. Train up a child in the way that he should go and when he is old he WILL NOT depart from it.

The "will's" and "will not's" are in the Bible for a reason; and it is not just to fill a page so man can change them to "may's" or "might's."

Really? Can you show me the Scripture you are speaking of.

No, you say I claim that. I say what the Bible says. If the child is trained in the way he should go, WHEN HE IS OLD he WILL NOT depart from it.

I can give you examples where people sinned and returned to the LORD before death.

No, they fail because of sin. Or do you forget that?

Again, it is Scripture that gives reason why kids are disobedient.. SIN. But the child who is trained in the way he should go will not depart from it when he is old. Scripture declares it, I believe it.

Scripture does not tell the child to train the parent, but the parent to train the child.

 

I explained why I started posting again. I was told to by a higher authority than you to continue to post.

If I stop posting the truth and continue to allow others to change it into a lie, many will be deceived.

 

Actually, I did not say I would not post on the thread anymore.

In post 197 I said I was out of this thread. But I did not say I would not come back in. Nor did I say I would not post in it again.

 

For the record, when you said you were "out", you just meant you were going to take a temporary sabbatical?

 

I asked you a simple question in several different ways which you ignored many times. Could you just give a simple answer to support your opinion about the verse you are speaking about as a promise rather than a principle?

The last question was, "So if you believe that honoring your parents would produce a long life, then also prove how a person who honors his parents and walks with God who died at age 25 by being murderd would agree with that verse being a promise. Maybe I am missing something. So could you explain that to me."

 

The Hebrew text says nothing of the kind. It cannot address time as the English does. The Hebrew text is an incomplete action.

You are accurate in that the translation you quoted has those words but not close in terms of actual understanding the Hebrew text. That is about as good as saying a text says, "I love you." That text can have many different meanings depending on the context of the words. You have made a huge assumption on which you base your interpretation.

Would you agree that a promise must be 100% true in every case? If not then it cannot be a promise.

Have you ever been wrong in your interpretation of a text in the Bible? If so how did you know?

 

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Bro. David