Prozac

DD: Why don't you start your own thread and stop hijacking this one?

The OP wanted to know the positive and negative aspects of Prozac.

He did not ask your opinion of depression.

Let's TRY and keep this on topic!

 

Dr. Meadows, I respect what you've said from clinical medical experience on the subject & agree. Thank you for your excellent posts.

Job, sitting at the gates of the city with boils all over his body and dogs licking his wounds, after losing all he had lost, HAD NOT SINNED, but certainly seemed depressed. Of course, that is not New Testament, so that probably doesn't count with some people around here.

I am allergic to Levaquin, one of the most powerful oral antibiotics. I had an anaphylactic reaction the last time I took it and if I ever take it again, it will probably kill me. But Levaquin is one of the newer wonder drug antibiotics and certainly helps fight infection in millions of people every day. But, like me, it isn't for everybody.

The same is true for Prozac. It will help some people and in others has a different reaction which can actually worsen the person's condition and cause them to have bizarre behavior. We are each "fearfully and wonderfully made" as David said (who, by the way was depressed himself at one point and who also played music for Saul who wrestled with depression). Because each of us is unique, what works for one person, may not work for the next person - ALL medications, even the common ordinary aspirin - can have side effects and can affect different people in different ways. I do believe, however, Prozac is over-prescribed, but that is JMO. I also believe the pharmaceutical companies encourage people to be depressed by some of the advertising on television. By advertising antidepressants, they are subliminally suggesting to people they are depressed, so someone who may not really be depressed but just having an occasional "down day" may run to their doctor for a quick fix pill. Again, JMO.

 

Lady Eagle,

"I also believe the pharmaceutical companies encourage people to be depressed by some of the advertising on television."

You're right!! They are a greedy bunch!!

The drugs work - but they are only a small part of the picture. They shouldn't be used as crutches.

And Daniel David,

Paul speaks about the "peace which passeth all understanding" (one of my favorite verses). Can we not have peace in suffering, peace in pain? Yes.

Consider a person who for no reason has feelings of worthlessness or hopelessness. This person is a Christian and cannot understand why he/she feels this way. I assure you this DOES occur. What should that person do?

The sinful, weak, worldly thing to do is to say, "I can't help it" and drown the feelings in drugs or alcohol - worse worse to commit suicide.

A Christian should pray for the strength to deal with it each day and to get through (God WILL supply this). As is often the case these feelings wax and wane. A drug such as lexapro, effexor, prozac, zoloft etc is a useful adjunct to help get him/her through the worst parts. Taking a drug does mean a person does not trust God. If you were unfortunate enough to suffer from a depressive illness you would likely thank God that SSRIs exist!

 

I have been taking 20 mg. of Prozac daily since 1991, with no side affects or problems. It was originally prescribed for the depression I suffered as a result of 12-year battle with an eating disorder.

I made several attempts to discontinue the Prozac, but was surprised by the downward spiral into depression each time I tried to go off of the Prozac. After consulting with my doctors, we agreed that it was probably best for me to remain on the Prozac. Apparently Prozac affects the levels of serotonin in the brain, which has a great deal to do with our moods. My doctor told me that taking Prozac for this problem is really no different than a diabetic taking insulin because the body does not produce sufficient insulin on its own.

Prozac may not be the answer for everyone who suffers from depression, but the results were dramatic for me. After taking it for only a couple of months, I was amazed. I remember thinking, "Wow! This must be what normal feels like." I still have normal ups and downs like everyone else does with the routine of daily life and changing circumstances; however, the black veil of depression was lifted, and I don't have the dramatic mood swings that I used to have.

I prayed to God for many years for relief from the depression and eating disorder, and God answered my prayers through several excellent doctors and an appropriate dose of Prozac. I am so thankful!

God Bless!

Priscilla Ann

 

Amen, Sister Priscilla Ann -- Preach it!

If you had to take Maalox twice a day
for the rest of your life, nobody would
bat an eye. I think i'll start
a theory that acid reflux is a sin --
would a pure heart cause heartburn

 

I have an ingrown fingernail. Who has sinned, Me or my father or mother. Neither, I chewed my nail to short.

 

It's almost funny the apparent misunderstanding of the forms of depression. That is it would be funny if it weren't such a serious issue for a lot of people.

Unfortuately I'm sure there are thousands who suffer needlessly because they have been told by well-meaning but medically ignorant people that the symptoms they have are simply sinful feelings, and to get up and get over them.

 

Note that I have never said sickness = sin. You just keep misrepresenting me to try and smear my position. Glad to see you are able to handle an intelligent debate.

 

Daniel David:

No, you didn't say that sickness is sin, but you did say that depression is sin. If the brain does not produce sufficient amounts of serotonin and thus causes depression, how is that sin?

Depression somtimes has a biological cause and sometimes has a cause rooted in sin. Only the patient, with the help of a doctor and/or pastor can determine that. You and I are surely not in a position to determine the cause of someone else's depression. I pray that you will never have to suffer from depression!

God Bless!

Priscilla Ann

 

Daniel David,

You DID say this:

"Depression is a sin, not a medical problem to be fixed with a drug."

Two problems with this statement:

1. You are wrong. Period.
2. This sort of "off the cuff" statement by a pastor could be a devastating blow to someone reaching out for help.

 

before I tear into DD and P Greg let me tell you my experiences with Prozac.

I was on Paxil after my son was born for the 'baby blues'. It helped great with my symptoms of no energy and not wanting to communicate with my family(or anyone else for that matter). I knew something was wrong when I couldn't make myself get up to fix my two year old something to drink. (I guess I committed a sin by having a baby, huh DD).

Paxil worked great on my symptoms and I was off it two years later when I found myself expecting our third(SURPRISE).

The next time I found myself experiencing a lack of wanting to communicate(normally I talk all the time), it came along with terrible mood swings. By this time the youngest was 4 and I was approching 38. I would go from happy one second to a raging maniac the next. People who know me will tell you they have rarely seen me angry. Especially not when the only thing that happened was one of the kids spilled something.

My doc didn't think this was to normal either. We tried paxil again but while it worked on the communication issues and the lack of energy, it did nothing for the mood swings.

My doc suggested Prozac because it appears to help with problems connected to changing hormones. It worked to solve all my issues. My children really appreciated me taking care of myself and no longer yelling my head off when some little thing happened. My friends appreciated it because I was again available to listen when they needed someone.

Word of warning: my MIL suddenly quit taking Prozac once and was sucidal within a couple of days. Even the doctor was suprised at the force of her reaction.

As has already been suggested, it won't hurt to try it but it may not be the best drug for you. You have to really know yourself and have a good support system of people who know you in order to judge its effectiveness.

P Greg and DD, it is condemning people like you which kept the church from helping mentally ill people for all the years in the past. No where in the Bible is it suggested that mental problems do not have a physical basis.

I'm also going to go so far as to say that it was people with your attitude that kept my mother from seeking the proper help for her mental problems when I was a child. Back then you didn't go see a psychiatrist when you had problems. That meant you were crazy, which meant you had committed some kind of sin that you were trying to keep covered up. Good Christian people didn't suffer from mental problem.

So instead of getting help dealing with the issues of neglect and abuse that had occured in her childhood she went to this doctor and that trying to get help for the physical manifestations of her problem.

If she had a panic attack then something must be wrong with her heart. If she had no energy then she was anemic. The list went on and on.

It ended up with a sin issue. That of being addicted to perscription drugs. That led to schizsophrenic episodes where she was incoherent and threatening. One time she threatened my father with a gun. I won't even go into everything that happened in my childhood as a result of all this. Let it be known though that it was all a result of an improperly treated brain chemistry issue which was a direct result of the genetics and environment of her family.

My grandfather was a preacher. He was also a very poor man with way to many children(14) to support. There often wasn't enough food to go around. Shoes were worn with cardboard covering the holes. Occasionally my grandfather threatened my grandmother with physical abuse over some idea that she was unfaithful. When she would have had the time to be unfaithful I don't know. She started having babies at 15 and didn't stop until she was 46. There were 17 known pregnancies. My grandfather also didn't believe in medical care. My grandmother died, from an undiagnosed liver condition that could have been treated, at age 61.

Out of that 14 at least 10 have suffered from some form of mental illness. Sin issues can't compete with genetics. They can only make the illness worse.

Ingnorance of the type DD and P. Greg can be compared with the ignorance of my grandfather who refused to allow my grandmother to go to the doctor when such care was available. Simple uneducation. You two need to do a little more research and spend some more time seeking the guidance of the Lord on what to do about your unloving, judgemental attitude.

Remember the Words of our Lord: Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. Matt. 7:1 and 2.

I hope that the day never comes when you have to suffer the way my mother and some of her siblings have suffered. I hope you never even have to deal with the problems I deal with on a daily basis. But if you do some day I pray the people around you treat you with more sympathy and respect than you are now treating others with.

 

It is not a dead horse; the problem of depression [which is rooted in self thinking] can be cured by that which is alive:

Heb 4:12-16

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are-yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.
NIV

It is sad that in this day, the Church has allowed the council of the ungodly to deceive them into the idea that Jesus is not the answer, but a mind altering drug is.

God’s answer to depression is clearly found in all of the book of Philippians from not having contentions, being of one mind, working outwardly your salvation, being fruitful, denying self, focusing on others, not allowing false doctrine to creep in, not allowing legalism, being full of joy even in the worst of circumstances, being content, thinking on these things, praying, and thanking God for what we do have. There is so much to this wonderful book, that does not include psychotherapy, drugs and the other worldly answers that do not work.

Daniel David is right. I am glad that he posted what he did.

Matt 11:28-30

"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."
NIV

 

You know, my soul isn't the problem here. My soul is saved by the grace of a Living God.

But that same God gave us doctors. Luke was one of them. He gave God credit for being the great Physician but no where I can find did he quit trying to help people with the medicines of the time.

My sister says ya'll need to work some with the mentally ill. Once you see the differences in their x-rays and CT scans to a normal persons you'll give up your 'legalistic', ignorant ways.

Oh, and back then people with epilepsy were considered to be demon posessed. Now that we know better (cause demons don't respond to medication) should we still accuse them of being possessed? That is a spiritual issue as well. And when we have 'exorcised' their demon according to scripture and they have another seizure do we tell them they don't have enough faith to keep the demons away?

Keep on in your ignorance. I for one won't be judged by that measure.

 

No Chet Daniel David is not right and neither are you. You guys speak authoritatively about something you know very little about. The fact you are so quick and flippant in your dismissal of these people shows several things:

Lack of understanding of the subject
Lack of caring
Lact of knowledge about people and emotions.

Your posts are full of pretty good lip service to Christ - but they hint at a very Pahrisaic self-righteousness.

 

Isn't arrogance a sin?

 

It is not a dead horse; the problem of depression [which is rooted in self thinking] can be cured by that which is alive:

Heb 4:12-16

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are-yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.
NIV </font>[/QUOTE]Chet, I'm not sure why you posted this scripture, for it doesn't differentiate between depression or high blood pressure. Are you advocating people stop taking their blood pressure medicine because that's sinful?

It's quite obvious here Chet, that you have little understanding of the definition of "depression". You just think it's "feeling down", feelings brought on by your actions or the actions around you. A feeling of not getting what you want. While those feelings are called "depression"... that's only one form of it. Most folks can "get over it" by prayer, conselling with others, getting busy.

That is NOT the form of depression we're talking about that responds to medicine. I pray God will open your eyes before you mistakenly offer poor consel to people needing medical treatment.

You're entitled to your opinion, however wrong it may be. As already mentioned, this is the same kind of thinking that branded those with epilepsy as demon possessed. No medicine needed there - just an exorcist.

I bet you guys really have a field day criticizing diabetics as being sinful gluttons. After all, if they would only eat as God intended then they would not have problems with diabetes. I wonder if taking diabetes medications is simply covering up sin under your view?

 

This is a good question. The problem with the chemical imbalance view it two fold. First it is a theory, it is not proven. For even the Zoloft commercials admit to this. Second, even if there were a chemical imbalance, why would we be quick to assume that this happens without cause? Perhaps these chemicals are released due to what one is thinking. Paul gives us, in the clearest of terms, the answer to this. Pray with thanksgiving, think on these things, then of course die to self etc… To go to a mind altering drug is no different than running down to the local bar and pouring out your sorrows in a bottle of whisky. We have a God who can council us.

You are equating a testable known medical condition with an un-testable unknown non-medical condition. BTW, the high blood pressure, and most other medical conditions, may have been avoided.

And you know this because…. I disagree with your theory and believe in the sufficiency of God’s Word concerning this matter?

I thank you for your prayers. I could never offer bad council to anyone using the same Word of God that helped Job, David, Elijah, and others. And I have counseled those diagnosed (without test) with Bipolar, clinically depression (as we are apt to do using the Word of God) and they have been set free.

Again you are equating a testable condition (that probably could have been avoided) with a non-testable condition. If I walked into my doctors office today and told him about my feelings of depression I would soon walk out with a bottle of dope. No test on the brain, no blood test, no nothing.

Demon possession is a topic of another thread. But I would say that a lot of the “disorders” given by psychologist today are actually demon possession. But there is no need for an exorcist (Acts 19), the only way to be rid of demons is by Salvation. People need the gospel!

Lack of understanding? And you say this because…?

Lack of caring? I care a tremendous about my friend. That is why I am posting here now.

Lack of knowledge about people and emotions? The creator knows everything about our emotions, mind, heart, soul, spirit, and mind. He gives us the answers to these things in the Word of God.

Rom 12:1-2
Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God-this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is-his good, pleasing and perfect will.

 

Chet,

"A lack of understanding"?

Yes you definitely have that. We know that there are chemical differences in the brains of individuals with depression. At least those of us who actually have an idea what we're talking about here know this.

No one ever said that Christians should walk down to the doctor and get dope for every problem. But antidepressants can greatly help those suffering from this REAL (not made up) condition. This is NOT sinful, provided that the person uses this drug as only a part of the therapy. As I pointed out about Philippians 4 we CAN have peace in suffering - this chapter isn't saying tht every bad feeling we have will vanish if we simply "get right with God".

As I explained to Daniel David and PastorGreg:

Your off the cuff (as well as biblically and medically incorrect) commentary could severely hurt a believer who is suffering (yes I said suffering) from depression and who IS asking God to help him/her through it.

 

We notice the following new rule from
the BB's largest competitor:

New Rule at Rapture Ready Bulletin Board:

"No Dispensing Medical Advice - Our board is made up of many members from diverse backgrounds and professions, including many health professionals. While we understand that those who may try to offer medical advice have good intentions and are usually operating within the scope of their training and experience, we cannot allow medical advice to be offered due to a number of potential liability reasons. It's impossible to verify the licensure and training of every single member, and even legitimate experts are susceptible to mistakes ... particularly when attempting to diagnose on-line, without being able to adequately examine the patient. If you are having a health problem serious enough to motivate you to seek help on this board, then we urge you to call your physician (or 911, if the situation is emergent) and seek professional face-to-face evaluation."