Psalm 118:8&9

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Palatka51, Nov 27, 2007.

  1. Palatka51

    Palatka51
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    Ok, I do not know if this has ever been debated before and if it has then forgive me for being Johnny come lately. There are apparently a few discrepancies over just what is the center verse of the KJV. Quick Verse counts according to this site http://www.marshcommentary.com/stats/ says that Psalm 103:1
    "Bless the LORD, O my soul, And all that is within me, bless His holy name." is the center verse. However there are many other sources that state that Psalm 118:8&9 are the center.
    www.snopes.com/religion/center.htm
    www.prayerfoundation.org/not_center_verse_of_bible_118_8.htm - 94k -
    As I have been repeatably taken to task by a fellow BB member regarding my signature I would like to have this resolved.
    Trivial subject in regards to what really matters but what say ye?
     
  2. JerryL

    JerryL
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    Not the Center Verse of the Bible:


    Note: the following is an "Urban Legend." It is Not true:

    Q. What is the shortest Chapter in the Bible?

    A. Psalm 117

    Q. What is the longest Chapter in the Bible?

    A. Psalm 119

    Q. Which Chapter is in the exact center of the Bible?

    A. Psalm 118

    Fact: There are 594 Chapters before Psalm 118. (Not true.)

    Fact: There are 594 Chapters after Psalm 118. (Not true.)

    ...Add these Chapters together and the total is: 1188.

    Q. What is the Center Verse in the Bible?

    A. Psalm 118:8 (Psalm 118:8 is Not the "Center Verse" of the Bible.)

    Q. Does this Verse say something significant about God's Perfect Will for our lives?

    A. The next time someone says they would like to find God's Perfect Will for their life, and that they want to be in the Center of His Will...just send them to Psalm 118:8!

    "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."

    -Psalm 118:8

    ________________________________

    Note: the actual Chapter count totals are:

    Genesis
    50
    Exodus
    40
    Leviticus
    27
    Numbers
    36


    Deuteronomy
    34


    Joshua
    24


    Judges
    21


    Ruth
    4


    1 Samuel
    31


    2 Samuel
    24


    1 Kings
    22


    2 Kings
    25


    1 Chronicles
    29


    2 Chronicles
    36


    Ezra
    10


    Nehemiah
    13


    Esther
    10


    Job
    42


    Psalms 1-117
    117




    Total: 595 Chapters







    Psalms 119-150
    32


    Proverbs
    31


    Ecclesiates
    12


    Song of Songs
    8


    Isaiah
    66


    Jeremiah
    52


    Lamentations
    5


    Ezekiel
    48


    Daniel
    12


    Hosea
    14


    Joel
    3


    Amos
    9


    Obadiah
    1


    Jonah
    4


    Micah
    7


    Nahum
    3


    Habakkuk
    3


    Zephaniah
    3


    Haggai
    2


    Zechariah
    14


    Malachi
    4


    Matthew
    28


    Mark
    16


    Luke
    24


    John
    21


    Acts
    28


    Romans
    16


    1 Corinthians
    16


    2 Corinthians
    13


    Galatians
    6


    Ephesians
    6


    Philippians
    4


    Colossians
    4


    1 Thessalonians
    5


    2 Thessalonians
    3


    1 Timothy
    6


    2 Timothy
    4


    Titus
    3


    Philemon
    1


    Hebrews
    13


    James
    5


    1 Peter
    5


    2 Peter
    3


    1 John
    5


    2 John
    1


    3 John
    1


    Jude
    1


    Revelation
    22



    Total: 593 Chapters

    Note: As you can see, Psalm 118 is therefore not the center chapter of the Bible. There are 594 chapters up to (and including) Psalm 116, and 594 Chapters from 118 on (including Psalm 118).

    This makes Psalm 117, (not Psalm 118) the center chapter of the Bible.

    Psalm 117 is the shortest Psalm. It has only two verses, and therefore no "center" verse. ___________________________________

    Psalm 117:

    1. O praise the Lord, all ye nations: praise him all ye people.

    2. For his merciful kindness is great toward us, and the truth of the Lord endureth forever. Praise ye the Lord.

    ___________________________________

    There is in fact No Center Verse of the Bible---the KJV Bible has an Even Number of verses.

    The King James Bible has 31,174 verses — an even number — so there is no one "center" verse: the center would be a combination of the 15,587th and the 15,588th verses, which do fall within Psalm 118 (Psalm 118:8-9, to be exact).

    But what about the Bible in other Language translations? What about the Hebrew Old Testament, the Septuagint, The Vulgate, the Coverdale Bible? What about the "original autographs" --- the original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts?

    The Hebrew text of the Old Testament, as well as the Greek New Testament, originally had NO Verse or Chapter Divisions (these were added to the Bible between 1205 A.D. and 1565 A.D. --- over 1,000 years after the time of Christ), so it's really a moot point.
     
  3. Palatka51

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    Thanks JerryL, you have confirmed my signature. However, how did you arrive at 31,174 verses? Quick Verse software has 31,102. Has QV removed some?
     
  4. JerryL

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    That was just a copy paste job from some website. I have no clue about any of that.
     
  5. EdSutton

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    Well, Ladies and Gentlemen, since I surely am the one who has upset Palatka51 with this, I think I shall do the actual count, and post the results. AND I am underway with this, as we speak.

    FTR, in advance, I personally do not care in the least, as to what is or is not the center verses, but think something can be posted entirely in good faith (as I certainly believe Palatka51 has actually done), and still be factually incorrect.

    That is what I believe about the 'tag line' that Palatka51 has posted.

    Do we now accept that if it "sounds good", it probably is correct. Sorry, I do not believe that to be the case, here.

    Is it important in and of itself, as to what verse or verses actually are the center verses of the KJV, or any other version for that matter? Certainly not IMO, but one should not ascribe something supposedly factual to Scripture, IMO, that is not correct.

    I do have a bit of preliminary figures, as to the Five Books of Moses, as to chapters and verses.

    I have personally counted these (and double checked them) from the KJV from viewing the Bible on Bible Gateway, where one can find the numbers in each chapter, which is what I've done. I would use my own Bible, except that I use the NKJV, and don't want to mistake one for another.

    http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/?action=getVersionInfo&vid=9

    This is the link to Bible Gateway, including info about the KJV, and if there is a mistake in this, if one would point it out, I will certainly check it out in a "hard copy" of the Bible in a KJV.

    The five books of Moses: and the number of chapters and verses

    Genesis , - 50 Chapters; 1533 verses

    Exodus , - 40 Chapters; 1213 verses

    Leviticus, - 27 Chapters; 859 verses

    Numbers, - 36 Chapters; 1288 verses

    Deuteronomy, - 34 Chapters; 959 verses

    Subtotal - 187 Chapters; 5852 verses.

    And yes, I can give the verse count of each chapter, so far, should any want it, confirming my figures given. By the same token, if someone has an actual count form a "hard copy" that does not agree, merely post it, and I will get into that, as well.

    The last poster in the thread, as I started this post, made this statement about some figures he gave, as to where they originated:
    I suggest that too many of us (and I'm probably not above reproach in this either, although I do try and verify) are often too quick to post things from some web site, without actually checking it out. That is exactly what I'm trying NOT to do here.

    Although I never thought I would have seen the day when I would engage in such, apparently it has arrived, so, "Off we go!" We are now underway.

    Ed
     
  6. EdSutton

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    Number of Chapters

    Let me add that the site JerryL has posted info from, appears 100% accurate as to the number of chapters in each book, at least as far as "Job". I have not added up the numbers nor counted any further, thus far.

    Ed
     
    #6 EdSutton, Nov 27, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2007
  7. Palatka51

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    As is the intent of this thread. May we arrive at an amicable conclusion.
     
  8. Palatka51

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    Ed,
    Let me say that I have counted the verses in Parsons Quick Verse 7.0 and it has 31,102 as you had suggested per PM. My question now is QV correct?
     
    #8 Palatka51, Nov 27, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2007
  9. EdSutton

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    I have no clue as to the accuracy of QV (although I would not have any reason to doubt it), for I do not even know what it is, nor had I even ever heard of it until this thread.

    Actually, I am doing this via pen and paper and adding them up in groups of ten chapters at a time, so I do not get too long a column to follow, and I can double check it more easily.

    Then I transfer and add the ten count columns to get the verses in a given book, and add up the book totals. Without an old fashioned adding machine, or a calculator to actually "run a tape", I would not trust my fingers and/or motor skills on a calculator, computer, or adding machine to enter it all accurately. :type:

    But I can add it up more than once, if it is in small bits, without losing my place too badly. And if it doesn't jive, :BangHead: then I take two aspirin, and add it again, after the headache stops.

    Ed
     
  10. LeBuick

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    It is a fact that the first verse is Gen 1:1 and the last is Rev 22:21. The rest are all in the middle...

    That be my $00.02
     
  11. EdSutton

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    Expecting some change back?? :confused:

    :laugh: :laugh:

    Ed
     
  12. EdSutton

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    Continuing:

    By my personal count from the KJV, as found on-line @ Bible Gateway:

    Subtotal from Genesis through Deuteronomy:

    The 'Torah': - - 187 Chapters; 5,852 verses.

    Joshua - -- - - - - 24 Chapters; 658 verses.

    Judges - - - -- - 21 Chapters; 618 verses.

    Ruth - - --- - - - - 4 Chapters; 85 verses.

    I Samuel - - - - - 31 Chapters; 810 verses.

    II Samuel - - - - - 24 Chapters; 695 verses. _____________________________________________

    New Subtotal, through the book of II Samuel - 291 Chapters; 8,718 verses

    Ed
     
  13. Amy.G

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    Is there a reason why this matters? :confused:
     
  14. npetreley

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    :laugh: I was thinking the same thing.
     
  15. EdSutton

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    The reason it matters:

    Yes, I would actually say there is a reason why it matters.

    Although as I said, I would have never thought I'd see the day when I would be involved with this.

    Read the OP and post # 5 in the thread for the "why".

    [Edited to add!] It is called "integrity".

    [You know, the stuff that Abimelech, Job, David, and Solomon had? (Gen. 20:5,6; Job 2:9; 27:5; 31:6; Ps. 7:8; 26:1,11; 41:12; Prov. 11:3; 19:1; 20:7)]

    And the two principals mainly involved here, are both agreed on this, I believe.

    Ed
     
    #15 EdSutton, Nov 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2007
  16. EdSutton

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    Correct counts in the KJV - RIP, urban legends!

    Some facts about the KJV.

    According to the edition of the KJV found on Bible Gateway, here, at this site.

    http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/?action=getVersionInfo&vid=9

    There are 1189 Chapters in the KJV Bible.

    There are 31, 102 verses in the KJV.

    The Center chapter of the KJV (apart from editions with the Apocrypha) is indeed Psalm 117, as there are 594 chapters from Gen. 1- Ps. 116, and 594 chapters from Psa. 118- Rev. 22.

    The center two verses of the KJV are Ps. 103: 1&2, again, in the editions without the Apocrypha. There are 15,550 verses from Gen. 1:1 through Ps. 102:28, and 15,550 verses from Ps. 103:3- Rev. 22:21. Hence, the center two verses as found in the KJV are Ps. 103:1 & 2.
    The 'shortest' as well as the center chapter in the KJV is Psalm 117. It consists of these two verses.
    There are four chapters that are the 'second shortest', with 3 verses each - Esther 10, and Psalms 131, 133, & 134. Interestingly enough, there is only one chapter with 4 verses, Psalm 123, and so for the BB numerists,this is what Psalm 123:4 says-
    The 'longest' chapter is Psalm 119 which contains 176 verses. The second longest chapter is Numbers 7 (89 verses). The longest NT chapter is Luke 1 (80 verses).

    The largest book is Psalms (150 chapters, 2461 verses); second 'largest' are Isaiah (66 chapters) and Genesis (1553 verses).

    The shortest book in the Bible, as well as shortest NT chapter is II John (13 verses). Five books have exactly 1 chapter - Obadiah, Philemon, II John, III John, and Jude. Only Haggai has exactly 2 chapters.

    Every 'multiple' 'second' book has fewer verses than the first (or third) book bearing the same name, such as I and II Kings, and I, II, and III John.

    I have now done all these counts personally, have now 'viewed' every page of the KJV, in ten chapter increments, as found on Bible Gateway to get the count of the verses in each chapter, added them all up on paper, and triple checked the listings and the math. While I would certainly not go so far as to say I have made no mistakes, here, in counting, I do feel extremely confident about the figures I have given. Please feel free to check this out for yourselves, should you so choose. There are no "urban legends" to be found here in this post; of that, I am absolutely certain. I may post an exact count of chapters and verses by book, a bit later, in this thread, and definitely will do this, if requested. Thank you all for your patience. I have seen more verses in a very short time, than ever in my life before this, at one time. It has been an experience doing something I could have never envisioned myself doing, in my wildest dreams or worst nightmares, either. May God use this for the benefit of all. If any want to PM me, to question or disagree (or even post to this, for that matter) I will give the book-by-book verse breakdown. Another has already given the chapter count. Now, I am going to bed!

    Ed
     
    #16 EdSutton, Dec 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2007
  17. David Lamb

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    As was I. Verses numbers and chapter divisions are helps for us to find our way around the bible - they were inserted hundreds of years after the bible was finished, and are themselves not part of the inspired Word of God. As I understand it, chapters (as we know them) were added in the 13th Century, and verses in the 16th century.
     
  18. EdSutton

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    This is basically correct, no doubt. The Geneva Bible (first published in 1860) was the first complete Bible in English to have the 'chapter' and 'verse' divisions as we know them today. The first English NT thus divided was apparently that of William Whittingham in 1557.

    However, the original question that came up was about the KJV. The KJV has always been divided into the current familiar chapter and verse divisions, as far as I know. I do not, in any way, consider these 'location marks' to be inspired, but they are the ony practical system for location that I know of, although there may be others.

    In fact, all punctuation and even 'sentence divisions' are somewhat arbitrary, from what little I know, as neither were apparently to be found in the original Hebrew and Greek. Both of these languages employed a 'continual' writing style with not so much as a space division between words. And the OT was effectively written as all in 'lower case' lettering, while the NT was entirely written in 'upper case'.

    Ed
     
  19. EdSutton

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    This is basically correct, no doubt. The Geneva Bible (first published in 1860) was the first complete Bible in English to have the 'chapter' and 'verse' divisions as we know them today. The first English NT thus divided was apparently that of William Whittingham in 1557.

    However, the original question that came up was about the KJV. The KJV has always been divided into the current familiar chapter and verse divisions, as far as I know. I do not, in any way, consider these 'location marks' to be inspired. but they are the only practical system for location that I know of, although there may be others.

    In fact, all punctuation and even 'sentence divisions' are somewhat arbitrary, from what little I know, as neither were apparently to be found in the original Hebrew and Greek. Both of these languages employed a 'continual' writing style with not so much as a space division between words. And the OT was effectively written as all in 'lower case' lettering, while the NT was entirely written in 'upper case'.

    Ed
     
  20. Rex77

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Amy.G
    Is there a reason why this matters? :confused:



    Then again there may not be much on TV this week. :laugh:
     

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