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Psalm 12:7

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Keith M, Jul 19, 2007.

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  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Let me summarise the typical thread (of many) on this topic:

    words

    people

    Words

    People

    WORDS

    PEOPLE

    WORDS!

    PEOPLE!

    WORDS!

    PEOPLE!

    WORDS!

    PEOPLE!


    WORDS!

    PEOPLE!

    See how much it accomplishes?
     
    #61 NaasPreacher (C4K), Jul 26, 2007
  2. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611 New Member

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    Good point Roger. I can add but one thing...







    WORDS!!     :)
     
    #62 Rufus_1611, Jul 26, 2007
  3. Keith M

    Keith M New Member

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    But you must admit that, although there are a few who deny overwhelming evidence from the Hebrew, the thread has remained on topic. This is highly unusual!

    And, as usual, you're absolutely wrong, Rufus. Psalm 12:7 is about the preservation of PEOPLE despite your continuing danial of the evidence. No matter how you guys try to bend, twist and shape God's word to fit your errant opinion, you can't make the Bible say what it doesn't say and what it has never said!
     
    #63 Keith M, Jul 26, 2007
  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    In other words:

    PEOPLE!!


    :)
     
    #64 NaasPreacher (C4K), Jul 26, 2007
  5. Keith M

    Keith M New Member

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    For those who continue to insist Ps. 12:7 refers to the preservation of words instead of the preservation of the faithful (people), you can learn a lot from the web page

    http://www.kjvonly.org/james/may_great_inconsistency.htm

    Pay special attention to the facts about preservation. Of course if you approach the article with the preconceived notion that Ps. 12:7 refers to the preservation of words and that it cannot possibly refer to its actual subject, people, then you may not actually learn anything. If you already accept the truth or if you approach the article with a mind willing to learn the truth, then you should appreciate the article. No matter which way you approach it, the article is full of truth, even if it isn't a quick read.
     
    #65 Keith M, Jul 26, 2007
  6. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611 New Member

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    Here's how The Bible should be bent, twisted and shaped for your theory to work...

    "For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times." - Psalm 12: 5,7,6​

    However, here's what the Bible says without bending, twisting or shaping...

    "For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him. The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." - Psalm 12:5-7 ​


    WORDS!!!
     
    #66 Rufus_1611, Jul 26, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2007
  7. Keith M

    Keith M New Member

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    Now what have I ever said to give you that idea, Roger???

    :smilewinkgrin: :saint: :rolleyes:
     
    #67 Keith M, Jul 26, 2007
  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Let's face it, sportzz fanzz! each one is gonna believe what he/she choosesta believe. I believe 'people' by the context of the whole Psalm & the opinions of an overwhelming majority of the translators.

    For the umpteenth time, I don't believe anyone here disputes that God has preserved His word....but Psalm 12:7 is NOT a verse which affirms it.

    I notice that almost all those who believe 'words' are KJVO. Problem is, if it WERE about words, it wouldn't help their cause a bit, as there's no language nor version even hinted at in V7, in Psalm 12, or anywhere else within Scripture.
     
    #68 robycop3, Jul 26, 2007
  9. Keith M

    Keith M New Member

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    Uh, Rufus, there you go again, applying the rules of English grammar to something that was written in Hebrew! When will you realize the two languages are different and that different rules of grammar apply? It's really a simple and truthful concept, Rufus, when you get right down to it! Your continued denial still doesn't make your error correct. The idea that Ps. 12:7 refers to words was never correct and it will never be correct since the Psalm wasn't written in English. Even the tranaslators of the 1611 KJV (the original KJV) knew this - that's why they placed a marginal note indicating the true meaning of the verse right there for everyone to see. It's a shame this marginal note has not been included in all the KJVs!

    Sorry you're having such a hard time comprehending the truth, Rufus!

    :rolleyes: :smilewinkgrin: :laugh:
    ​
     
    #69 Keith M, Jul 26, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2007
  10. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611 New Member

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    I'm aware. When you going to stop applying Hebrew rules to English grammar?
    Is it an error to trust the Word of God or is the Word of God in error or is the AV not the Word of God?

    Yes it was. I've quoted it to you a couple times in English.

    It's a shame you feel marginal notes trump scripture.

    I'm not having troubles, it's a pretty simple Psalm to comprehend, if you can read and understand English and trust that the English Bible is true.

     
    #70 Rufus_1611, Jul 26, 2007
  11. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

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    I believe the Lord would be more pleased if there were more grace displayed, and a lot less emotion. Here is some light (without all the heat)--
    Rufus, as you know there are occasions in the scripture where the author inserts a parenthetical thought in the midst of a logical progression.
    Keith, the verse has never been presented in Hebrew in the entire thread; the text being discussed (KJV) is in English where English grammar does apply. Translator's deal with this situation often, and if they thought the antecedent was ambiguous they would have been justified to use a specific noun rather than a pronoun.

    I think it is obvious to all readers that both 'sides' want the interpretation to support their position more than they want to understand each other.
     
    #71 franklinmonroe, Jul 26, 2007
  12. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

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    Please explain to me: how did the same brilliant men that were guided by the Holy Spirit in their translated work, allegedly also place ignorant and blasphemous marginal notes referring precisely to the same text?
     
    #72 franklinmonroe, Jul 26, 2007
  13. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611 New Member

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    Those brilliant men were not guided by the Holy Ghost relative to marginal notes. I do believe they were relative to scripture.

    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" - 2 Timothy 3:16​

    Thus, using a marginal note as an argument for why a verse doesn't say what it says, places non-inspired words above God inspired words.
     
    #73 Rufus_1611, Jul 26, 2007
  14. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

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    Rufus, please clear some space so I may send you a private message. Thanks!
     
    #74 franklinmonroe, Jul 26, 2007
  15. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    These CT/MV groups said, "PEOPLE!!"

    These TR/KJV groups said, "WORDS!!"
     
    #75 Askjo, Jul 26, 2007
  16. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    Amen! :thumbs:
     
    #76 Askjo, Jul 26, 2007
  17. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Wrong, wrong, wrong.

    I am TR/KJV and I say "PEOPLE" and there are MANY more like me.
     
    #77 NaasPreacher (C4K), Jul 26, 2007
  18. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    I am still dizzy, but I thought this would be an appropirate place to place my 999th post.

    PEOPLE!
    :laugh: :tonofbricks:
     
    #78 Mexdeaf, Jul 26, 2007
  19. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    Well, is your theology under the naturalistic method? Or is your theology Alexandrian? If not, why did we disagree each other concerning Psa 12:6-7?
     
    #79 Askjo, Jul 26, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2007
  20. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    Because like it or not you are WRONG! But no one will convice you of that so...

    :sleeping_2:
     
    #80 Mexdeaf, Jul 26, 2007
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