psalm 138:2

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by robycop3, Feb 9, 2005.

  1. robycop3

    robycop3
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    Psalm 138:2, KJV: "I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name."

    Many other versions render this verse, "Your word and Your name" or, "along with Your name". I've had several Jews tell me "word and name" is correct, and the context of Scripture seems to bear this out. One of the Ten Commandments is to not misuse God's name, while He doesn't mention His word...and God exalts His own name.

    Is any word greater than its author?

    Your thoughts, please?

    And please, let's stick to this topic. As Baptists, we all agree God has preserved His word, so we needn't discuss any KJVO issues here except as how other versions render this verse.
     
  2. av1611jim

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    Here are a few of the "versions" I have on my software.
    Wycliffe:
    Ps 138:2
    Y schal worschipe to thin hooli temple, and Y schal knouleche to thi name. On thi merci and thi treuthe; for thou hast magnefied thin hooli name aboue al thing.
    Young's Literal:
    Ps 138:2
    I bow myself toward Thy holy temple, And I confess Thy name, For Thy kindness, and for Thy truth, For Thou hast made great Thy saying above all Thy name.
    Darby's :
    Ps 138:2
    I will bow down toward the temple of thy holiness, and celebrate thy name for thy loving-kindness and for thy truth; for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
    ASV :
    Ps 138:2
    I will worship toward thy holy temple, And give thanks unto thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: For thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
    KJV2000:
    Ps 138:2
    I will worship toward your holy temple, and praise your name for your lovingkindness and for your truth: for you have magnified your word above all your name.
    WEB :
    Ps 138:2
    I will bow down toward your holy temple, And give thanks to your Name for your loving kindness and for your truth; For you have exalted your Name and your Word above all.
    Geneva :
    Ps 138:2
    I will worship toward thine holy Temple and praise thy Name, because of thy louing kindenesse and for thy trueth: for thou hast magnified thy Name aboue all things by thy word.

    I don't know. I think God does exalt His word above His name, for by it and it alone does He reveal Himself. It is true that God can be known as Creator by Creation, but His word is what reveals salvation to us and all we need to know for godly living.
    Asking a question like "Is any word greater than its author" is the wrong question I think. A question like that discounts this;
    Pr 4:20
    ¶ My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.
    Pr 4:21
    Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.
    Pr 4:22
    For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.

    This passage tells us that the words of God are life. Since God is the Author of life then are not His words just as powerful? I don't think His words are "greater" than He, but the passage does not say that they are. It simply says He has exalted His words above His name. In other words, We are to hold His words in higher esteem than His name. Not that we relegate His name to "second class" but that it is His words which lead to life. "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God"
    What do you think?
    In HIS service;
    Jim

    (edited to add Scripture)
    Joh 6:63
    It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
    I only add this passage in addition to Pro. 4:20-22 for further support.

    [ February 09, 2005, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: av1611jim ]
     
  3. neopallium

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    'Is any word greater than its author?'

    The Word is the author.

    John 1:1 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.'

    vs 3 'All things were made by him; and without him not anything made that was made.'

    John 1:1 reveals that the Trinity are both one and yet separate.


    I don't think that magnify in this instance means to make greater. Instead, it implies focal point, or exaggerate.

    The theme of the Bible revolves around the Lord Jesus Christ and his saving Grace.

    I think that 1 Cor 12 describes this same idea regarding the Church.

    Is not the Human face 'magnified' (exaggerate) above the feet? We as humans do not recognize one another by the feet.

    Consider 1Cor13:24 in particular.

    'For the comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honor to that part which lacked:'

    It is my opinion from these verses that Psalm 138:2 read as the KJV.

    If the Holy Ghost had been magnified (or emphasized) more than Christ's reedeeming power would it make a difference?

    God exists in three distinct persons. Although equal and the same, It was the word that became flesh.

    Otherwise, Jehovah and Holy Ghost could be interchanged with Christ everywhere in the Bible.

    John 1:1 does NOT read, 'In the beginning was Jehovah and Jehovah was with God, and the Jehovah was God.'

    Christ was God, Christ (the word) redeemed us.

    John 1:1 reveals that the Trinity are both one and yet separate.

    Thank-you for bringing this important verse up.
    It, for me highlights the distinctness and the mysterious nature of the Trinity.(Acts 17:29 and Col 2:9)

    Once again, I do believe that there is a difference between the two translations.


    Let us then be true and faithful,
    Trusting, serving every day;
    Just one glimpse of Him in glory
    Will the toils of life repay.

    When we all get to Heaven,
    What a day of rejoicing that will be!
    When we all see Jesus,
    We’ll sing and shout the victory!

    Onward to the prize before us!
    Soon His beauty we’ll behold;
    Soon the pearly gates will open;
    We shall tread the streets of gold.
     
  4. neopallium

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    Furthermore, 1 Timothy 2:5 states
    'For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;'

    vs6 'Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time'

    We as Christians are instructed to pray in Jesus' name.

    John 14:13 'And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
    14 'If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

    This may be the key....

    "that the Father may be glorified in the Son."

    When the Son is 'magnified,' the Father is glorified.

    Hence we Christians do not pray as the Jehovah's Witnesses to Jehovah negating the Son, We don't ask in the name of the Holy Ghost etc.
     
  5. neopallium

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    One more comment, some modern versions say, "your word and name"

    The Jehovahs Witness' have simply excluded any confusion and simply put name for this verse.

    I guess that small details like this really don't matter... Right?

    But consider that the JW's have inserted Jehovah throughout their bible translation.

    They can point to Psalm 138:2.

    His name (Jehovah) is certainly magnified throughout their bible.
     
  6. robycop3

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    Thanx, Jim and Neo, for your honest and factual posts! The veracity of your opinions is very possible!

    Are there any readers of Hebrew out there to jump in?
     
  7. HankD

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    The Hebrew words literally say :

    ...for you have magnified above all your name your word.

    To Magnify.
    Strong's 1431 Gadal
    In the sense of: to make or cause to be great or powerful.

    HankD
     
  8. av1611jim

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    I guess that reinforces my case doesn't it?
    Another thought...;
    Since it is in the sense of "to make or cause to be great or powerful" then that would mean that God's revelation of Scripture to us becomes the "power" by which one receives their faith unto salvation. And that would cross reference to Rom.10:17 even though on the surface the two passages do not relate.
    So we could paraphrase the verse to say God has ascribed power to His words which His name alone does not bear. I think this is valid since many folks use the name of God even in a religious sense but there is no power in it. The power comes from using His word aright.

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  9. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    The word translated "above" in teh KJV is the Hebrews word 'al. It means above, or alongside, or according to. It is likely the idea that his word should be as equally valued as his name his. It would be nonsense for his word to be above his name, since the name stands for the very existence of God and God's word would not be greater than his existence. The NIV and the ESV have perhaps the best translation here: You have exalted above all things your word and your name.
     
  10. av1611jim

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    I don't think it is nonsense Pastor Larry, for the following reason.
    Just exactly how is it we even KNOW His name? By and through His word. And ONLY in that way. God's word is the revelation of Himself.
    Therefore, we have no way of knowing God apart from His word. See John 6:63

    Even though "alongside" or "according to" are valid meanings of the Hebrew, it does not necessarily follow that either of those two choices are correct in the context of the passage.
    This is seen in the definition of table for example. It could mean a flat top of a mountain, but you would not put a mountain top in your house! And it could mean a graphical illustration of numbers or facts but it is quite useless to eat your dinner on! [​IMG]
    So we see that although words in ANY language can mean several things, we must consider the context of its usage to define it for its intended purpose. But I need not remind you of these things since you are an educated man like myself.

    In HIS service;
    Jim [​IMG]
     

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