Public Education

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Ed Edwards, May 2, 2003.

  1. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    What are your thoughts about public education? [​IMG]
     
  2. Sherrie

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    I like it. My children also learn to "act" with other children there own age.

    I may not always agree with some of the things within the school district, but I do like my children going there. As far as learning scripture and things like that, it is my job to teach my children. I also see that as wonderful tool for my children to witness to others who do not know the Lord. And mine do.

    For being realistic, my children will be able to meet the real world as they grow, and be able to cope and handle things much better. They can get a long with children their own age and can inner-act with others. They are not shy. And less likely to stay within themselves.

    My brother homeschooled...and when his children left home, they all became very wild, and very rebellious. They also cannot handle getting along with others. Now, I am not saying all home-schooled people are like this...this is one of many.

    Public Schools also offer much more, than can be offered from home, with labs and access to expensive books and such.

    Where we live, the home-school child is required to go to school for PE anyway.

    Sherrie
     
  3. Sherrie

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    Sorry double posted. Don't know why?
    Sherrie
     
  4. Thankful

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    I totally agree with you Sherrie.

    Good Post. [​IMG]
     
  5. I Am Blessed 24

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    My children all attended Public Schools until our Christian School started. They were all very happy to switch...no one made fun of them at the Christian school because of their standards, modes of dress, short hair on the boys, etc.

    Their grade levels, when they graduated from the Christian High School, were approximately two years ahead of the Public Schools as reported by the SATs and the College Entrance Exams.

    They had plenty of kids at their school to interact with and I think one of the main reasons I liked it was because they were getting the same teachings from three different places...Home, Church, School. They all backed each other up and reinforced the same teachings.

    I DO think, in a small town, the Public Schools are better than in the larger cities. But, my choice would still be a Christian School as opposed to a Public School or homeschooling.

    That doesn't necessarily mean the kids will turn out the way they should. Some kids are going to be OK no matter what school they attend and some aren't.

    JMHO,
    Sue
     
  6. Headcoveredlady

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    Where in Scripture is authority given to the government to train children?
     
  7. Karen

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    A great deal depends upon which public school.
    I have been a substitute teacher in several OK public schools, and it would not be a bad thing to send my kids there.
    But OK is a rural, conservative state, and many of the public school teachers go to church and have "traditional" values. Likewise, school boards. The long-time school board head in my town, at least until recently, was also the head deacon at First Baptist. This is apparently not the case in many other parts of the country. ;)

    After all, the statistics I have seen are that 25% of the adult population of OK are on the rolls of a Baptist church. That doesn't even count other churches.

    And in an individual school, individual classes certainly vary. If mine were in public school, one would be in honors classes and would do well.
    One would be in "normal" classes and would get good grades for good behaviour but would not necessarily learn too much, with some of the behavior problems manifested by some other kids.

    My kids have always gone to a wonderful Christian school. And it is a great blessing to me that they have been able to do so.
    Textbooks in history, for example, cover topics such as the Reformation. Even if a secular text does, it just is not the same.

    There are plenty of opportunities for my kids to interact with non-Christian kids.
    Many non-Christians send their kids to private school, including our school, because they like the environment. My kids are also in Scouts and other activities. We also live in a neighborhood with other families.

    It is a great thing to have the school reinforce home and church.
    By the time a child goes to school from 8 to 3:30 or so, has extracurricular activities, and then has homework, it is very difficult for many parents, including me, to have a complete Bible study program that fills in all the gaps.
    And yes, we do study the Bible together as a family at least 5 out of 7 nights a week, and we go to church a lot.

    There are also several hundred homeschool families in my immediate area, with well-developed support groups, including resources from the several local Christian schools.
    I personally know of many children homeschooled all the way who are doing great in college.

    My oldest, being in private school all his life, recently scored very highly on the ACT, I am proud to say, and is now in line for a number of academic scholarships. Two-thirds of those in his class also scored very highly.

    It comes down to the fact that each family is different, and the opportunities they have are different. Each family should do the best it can for its own children. Sometimes that best is public school, sometimes it is not. There are great public schools, and there are wretched ones.

    But there is one tendency I have observed a number of times. Many people in evaluating schools, do not really see what school is like for their child, now. They look back to when they were in school twenty or thirty years ago.

    Whichever method is chosen, the parents should be involved as much as they can. I have enjoyed being a room mother, helping sponsor field trips, and assisting behind the scenes in the office.
    I have spent YEARS helping with homework. (No, I don't do it for them.)
    Some kids will thrive no matter what their situation; some kids will struggle no matter what their situation.

    Karen
     
  8. mozier

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    One does not allow the government to exlusively train their children. The principle of parents being the prime teachers of their children is paramount and can never be usurped by another source.

    With that said, however, sending one's child to a public school does NOT constitute giving one's child over to the government for training.

    Rather, it is an agreement by the parent and professionally-trained teachers to allow them to teach your children in CONJUNCTION with you as the parent to watch over what they are being taught.

    If I see that the Public School Teacher is teaching the correct basics to my child (reading, english, math, etc.) and that this teacher is doing good work in doing so, then I am well pleased.

    If not, however, then it is my job as the parent to object. I watch my daughters' courses and homework like a hawk, and on a couple of occasions I have objected to the teacher what my daughters were being taught. A good compromise was worked out, and the teaching continued.

    Finally, the teaching of children by others beside the parent is not something new, government or not. Even in Jesus' time, children met with a synagogue elder and were taught the basics of language, math skills, logic, and the faith. But even then, it was done in conjunction with the parent.

    In the end, the parent is the prime teacher of their children. And if the parent sees it fit to allow their children to be taught by trained professionals in a public school, then it is the parent's responsibility to be in conjuction with the teachers and make sure that the child is well taught. And there is nothing unbiblical about this.


    mozier
     
  9. Karen

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    Also, many public institutions support private education. For example, in OK, many homeschooled kids actually go to either Oklahoma State or the University of OK by correspondence, for very well-done, completely state-accredited high school programs. The same is true in many other states.

    In my town, the private and home-schooled kids have great on-site access to labs and other specialized equipment because of arrangements with the local colleges.

    Karen
     
  10. Sherrie

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    Very well said! Wonderful post! I know that if I have a problem with any of the school, do to my own belief's...the school is more than happy to work with me. Just a note...My children are all in the top 10% in their class. One just graduated top 3% in his class.

    Sherrie
     
  11. stubbornkelly

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    Parents have the authority to choose to allow government employees to academically educate their children. It's a parental option. Legally, children must be academically educated, yes, so parents don't have the legal option to just let their kids laze around all day and remain ignorant, but parents can choose to what schools their children go. If there's something a parent cannot teach their child, is it not permissible for them to find someone who can?

    I went to private school through third grade, then public through high school. I went to a pulbic college, then a private one. All the horror stories I hear about public education and the public schools - never experienced anything like them. Were there students at my high school who smoked pot? Yes, but I never saw it, and was never offered any sort of drug, not even a cigarette. Was there sex? Not on campus, to my knowledge. And really, I never knew many people in high school who were having sex - the percentages are lower than commonly believed, even now.

    My public education was good, perhaps not exceptional, but solid and consistent. My mother couldn't have done better. I'm not insulting her, it's just the truth. We couldn't afford private school, but even so, they weren't any better, and the quality of education at the Christian schools was inconsistent, to say the least. My church had a school, but no way would I have gone to it. My public school was of better quality.

    Anyhoo, my boyfriend homeschools his daughter, which is good for them. Actually, it's him and a friend of ours, and her daughter is homeschooled with Annabel. It works out well. If he and I marry, he's already said that he wouldn't expect me to take over as primary teacher. Sure, I'd be involved, happily so, but full time homeschooling is not something I'm interested in doing. Part of me is drawn to it, but I don't think my temperament is suited for it.

    I have seen high quality consistency in Friends (Quaker) schools, though, and would have no trouble sending any children I have to one, if I could afford it.

    Educational quality is what I look for in a school. If the public schools of an area can provide better education than the private ones, then those are the best, IMO. Kids who are going to be good students will be good students anywhere, and generally, those that aren't, won't be any better at a private school (often a dumping ground for unruly, "trouble" kids whose parents are frustrated with them and their grades, at least in my hometown). What I didn't get at my public high school, I sought elsewhere. Probably because my parents "trained me up" to be curious and to go beyond what was necessary. Funny that they raised me, even though I was schooled outside the home.
     
  12. KenH

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    I think that it is unconstitutional for the federal government to be involved in education, period. As for state governments, it depends upon what each state's constitution says.

    As a practical matter, I would prefer no government involvement in education on any level. I know we won't go back to that method, but it is my preference. I imagine a search of the Internet will turn up lots of debate material supporting both sides of this issue. I have a bias toward limited, to-the-letter constitutional government. [​IMG]
     
  13. Molly

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    We live in a medium size town(about 30,000)and our schools are wonderful. I think the elem schools,for the most part are good and we did not have a problem at all in them. My oldest daughter was in the gifted and talented program and excelled in most areas. My younger one was also doing very well.(this is not a bragging statement,I am just stating that they were very good students,thus not being the reason to homeschool) [​IMG] Academically,I think they received a good foundation. Now,we are homeschooling and we love it! Both girls are doing well and I feel they are moving beyond the public school pace and learning more as we go.

    I guess it depends on where you live. Our town has a reputation for having great public schools...I realize all schools have their flaws. And,we shouldn't ever expect perfection. We also have 2 private christian schools here that are wonderful,too. I realize it is not this good everywhere.

    I am a former elem public school teacher...I saw some new age kind of stuff creeping in when I taught and much humanistc worldview points taught(which I didn't teach). So,I think there are definitely things to watch out for and be aware of as concerned parents.

    Molly [​IMG]
     
  14. Headcoveredlady

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    Really, that is amazing that when children spend almost eight hours there daily for five days a week they are not being trained.

    I agree that if they were "just," teaching the three r's that would be fine. But, we all know they are not just teaching the three r's. They have an agenda, just like I do. My agenda is to train my children for possible future service for Jesus.

    Someone mentioned that they put their children in government schools so that they will act with other children. That is one of the primary reasons we chose to homeschool. Because the Bible tells in 1 Corinthians 15:33, "Do not be deceived, bad company corrupts good morals."
     
  15. Sherrie

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    HCL...What is their agenda? You sound very cult...and make it as tho going to school publicly or privately is almost scifi.

    So what exactly is the agenda?

    I raise my kids...and they are trained nicely. Do you say your children love and worship God more than mine?

    Sherrie
     
  16. Molly

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    HCL,

    The concerns you mentioned were some the deciding factors for us when we decided to homeschool,too. I think as parents,we have to decide what is spiritually best for our children...for us it was to homeschool. I do not want my children in school now,but ours are good for families who do want public educ.

    I think the best thing is to be aware and always examining to see what is BEST.
     
  17. Headcoveredlady

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    HCL...What is their agenda? You sound very cult...and make it as tho going to school publicly or privately is almost scifi.

    So what exactly is the agenda?

    I raise my kids...and they are trained nicely. Do you say your children love and worship God more than mine?

    Sherrie
    </font>[/QUOTE]Sherrie,
    Did you read my post above? I already told you what my agenda was. Please read it again if you are truly interested in knowing what my agenda is you will see it in the post that you PARTIALLY quoted.

    And I ask that you ********REFRAIN FROM ACCUSING BORN AGAIN CHILDREN OF GOD AS BEING CULT MEMBERS? **********


    I am thankful that you do not determine whether or not I am saved. I would appreciate similar courtesy, much abliged.
     
  18. KeeperOfMyHome

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    Well, quite actually, if you want to get right down to it, evolution and homesexuality are two things right off the bat. Though my own children began their education in public school, I have come to question how appropriate it is for Christian parents to allow their children to be educated in such an environment.

    I enjoy the very close relationship I have been able to develope with my children. During the years they were in PS, time limitations restricted that relationship. I feel that I, personally, am able to know my children better than if they were away from home from 7:30 a.m. until 4:00 or 4:30 every afternoon. That's almost like working a fulltime job! Then with homework when they arrive home, I really feel that our time together would be severely restricted . . . and that's not even with any outside activities.

    And speaking of such . . . our children are very much involved in our local 4H club . . . this allows them many opportunities . . .

    County Project Achievement/District Project Achievement . . . our oldest daughter received third place with her project that required that she prepared visuals and present a mostly memorized presentation to a panel of judges in a project area of her choice (she did the history of books and the written language).

    Shooting sports (BB gun team/air pistol team) . . . there are both homeschooled and public schooled children on these teams and all seem to get along well together . . . we leave this afternoon for the annual state match where about 30 or 40 other counties will be.

    Dairy judging . . . the kids didn't place, but they still learned a lot! They were required to look at dairy cows and place them in order from greatest to least as to which made the best dairy cows. They also had to list reasons for their choices, memorize them, and present their case before a judge.

    4H Homeschool Club . . . two of my kids were board members this year . . . reporter (prepare and mail monthly newsletter; keep a roster of members); secretary (required to keep notes on monthly meetings and present these at meetings; call role).

    Yesterday, their homeschool choir was asked to sing at the National Day of Prayer gathering in our hometown. What an honour that was!

    As you can see, we are not sheltered away from the world. There are many opportunities to be in contact with many different kinds of folks.

    It DOES take a parent's involvement no matter route you decide on. I just felt that with five children it would be very difficult for me to be actively involved with each of their school classes and to be able to keep up with what was going on. The most we ever had in PS at one time was 4 and it was not an easy task. When folks ask me 'isn't it hard homeschooling five', I just tell them it's no more difficult than having 5 kids at three different schools (2 in elementary, 2 in middle, and 1 in high)! In fact, it may even be less stressful for me!

    We all have an agenda for our children . . . a goal . . . a vision . . . a desire! I don't know that allowing the PS to educate my children would help me point my arrows in the direction I believe the Lord wants them to go.

    Julia
     
  19. Thankful

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    Thank you, Mozier, for posting that explanation.

    Years ago, public schools provided education for the children that could not afford a tutor or private school. I am certainly grateful for that and Karen is correct, for the most part Oklahoma public schools are still good schools.

    Funding for some has become a problem. My step-daughter sometimes buys the supplies for her students because she teaches in a neighborhood that parents can't always afford to buy the necessary supplies that are not furnished by the school.

    I agree with Sherrie, What is the public school agenda?

    Oh, I see this has already been answered.

    Edited to add note
     
  20. Headcoveredlady

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    Thankful,
    I would like to ask you this: Do you think that the agenda of government schools is to train my children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord?
     

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