Public Schools

Discussion in 'Politics' started by saturneptune, Nov 21, 2009.

  1. saturneptune

    saturneptune
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    I went to public schools, mostly in Mississippi from the late 50s to the late 60s. Yes, there was always childish pranks, of which I did my share. There was always the talking, but when pranks were played, it was always done in a manner not to get caught. Of course, whatever one did back then, there was a price to pay with the paddle, and your parents waiting for part 2 when one got home.

    After retiring a little while back, I got a job as a substitute teacher in a public school system here in Kentucky, in a city limit setting. This has been one of the most eye opening experiences of my life, even though I raised kids. I did get a late start on mine, and they are just now starting their families.

    Anyway, this has been about the biggest challenge in my life as far as adapting to change. Especially at the Jr High level, or middle school as some call it, this goes way beyond the talking, wondering around or pranks, this is out right defiance of respect to teachers. First of all, there is no paddle, and there is no touching. It is pretty much a bluff and sending them to the office.

    One of the most amazing things is back years ago, when a sub came to teach, it was always tempting to relax your normal behavior. That comes with the job. However, what is happening now, is there is no difference between the regular teacher and sub in how they act. In the very presence of teachers, books are slammed on the floor, incessent talking despite warnings, cursing teachers to their face, and when it comes time to face the consequences, (what a laugh), they could care less.

    Actually, I am suprised how well I am adapting. I feel a sense that these kids are on the brink of disaster, and want to do anything I can to help while I am there and give some sense of direction. Lots of these kids have no similance of love, direction, or a true parent at home. They are either stoned out of their mind, in jail, or have rotating bed partners.

    As I said, there is a certain satifaction in this job if one can adapt, or just make a little difference. Sometimes I do come home with a parched throat though. I guess I say all of this to ask for any thoughts or advice, or would you ever attempt such a job?
     
  2. annsni

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    My older two girls were homeschooled through 8th grade then went on to the public school for 9th through 12th. The two things that shocked them and they needed to adjust to was the language of the kids and the disrespect of the kids towards the teachers. My 17 year old just posted on Facebook the other day about it - how disrespectful the kids were in choir when the teacher was talking. I raised them to respect others especially adults and they still just don't get it. Of course, I get raves from the teachers about them because my daughters care and are very respectful.

    Ugh - I wish I had some great advice. I guess a bull-whip wouldn't help, huh? Well, it would help but it would bring another set of issues with it. ;)
     
  3. targus

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    A lot of it has to do with the particular school's culture - meaning the culture that the school chooses.

    My wife started a program of "character development" in the school where she teaches. The emphasis was on the staff and students conducting themselves as persons of good character - with emphasis on "respect, responsibility and kindness".

    The fostering of these character traits was ingrained in every school activity and function 24/7.

    As a result in just two or three years there has been an absolute transformation in the behavior of the students in her school.

    She has received national recognition for this work and in the past year she has become personally responsible for starting the same program in three other schools in the district and the school board is encouraging that all of the schools do the same.

    Check out this website for more information - www.character.org
     
  4. exscentric

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    This is not negative toward homeschool/christian school in any way, it is a looking back observation/wondering.

    Is the condition of the public schools in part due to Christians fleeing from it years ago? Had Christians remained and fought would the public schools be different today. Would the believers "light" have made a difference.

    Totally hind sight wondering.

    The conservatives in OR wonder why their state is so liberal, the schools have been turning out liberal greenies financed by a liberal government for years, why wouldn't the state be liberal? :thumbsup:

    I have two kids teaching in alternative public schools where there is a dress code/behavior code and they say it is a dream to teach in that environment.

    Knew a prof in college that did student teaching in a public school in the 70s and had a problem student in a no touch situation so walked over, picked up the desk with student and carried the kid out to the hall :thumbs:
     
  5. rbell

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    God has placed you where you are so that you may be a light in a very dark place.

    As an occasional sub, I agree...you have no "aces in the hole." Most problem kids have no one to back up the school system (in fact, they subvert it). Where I've served...God help you if you get on to a student from another race. The "racism" charges are automatic, and they're quite hard to get rid of (even if unwarranted!). And then, even if you survive those charges...b/c of the Kids, and Map, and the ridiculous requirements of an NCAA coach......

    Having said all that, I admire your courage, and I appreciate your being willing to try out a solution. May this bunch "get it"--before it's too late~
     
  6. abcgrad94

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    SN, it's not just public schools that have these problems. I worked in a local Christian school and found the same problems you described in your public school.

    I think the problem is two fold:
    1. The breakdown of the home. Too many kids do not have good role models in their parents and they just aren't being raised properly. Whether divorce, drugs, alcohol, or just plain selfishness, parents are dropping the ball when it comes to taking responsibility for their children.

    2. The stinkin' rules of political correctness have invaded the public school system (and many private schools as well) to the point teachers no longer are ALLOWED to have control in the classroom. This is what happens when we the people hand over our responsibilities to the government. God never meant for the teachers, the pastor, Hollywood, the school board, or the politicians to assume our role as parents. This is one reason why I am now homeschooling my kids. It's MY job, not the government's, to see that my children grow up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
     
  7. billwald

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    It is my thesis that since most of the old prohibitions against inter-everything marriage have broken down and disappeared, the US is self-segregating into winners and losers. It would be a cold day in hell before any of my kids were permit my grandkids to attend a school as described in the IP. The kids in those schools will be losers, the new serf class, because their parents are losers.

    Another couple of generations (if there is no WW3) and 80% of Americans will be serfs. "The Bell Curve" is coming true. Would anyone on this list permit their kids to attend a school where there was no discipline and control?
     
  8. Robert Snow

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    A few years ago, after an injury, I returned to college to get my degree to become a elementary school teacher. I substituted for five years while in college. I can agree with the things you say. I never expected the type of behavior I encountered and never expected the school administrations to allow it. After graduating college, I was fortunate enough to find a machine shop where I could return to my former career.
     
  9. abcgrad94

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    I don't think interracial marriage is the cause of "winners" or "losers." A breakdown in homes in general has caused problems, but the reason why homes are broken down is because people have forgotten Christ. Christians are walking hand in hand with the world and there is little distinction between them anymore.

    The only way to "fix" society's problems is to bring our country back to godliness, and that is a change that first takes place in the heart--not the pocketbook, not the schools, not in race relations or anything else.
     
  10. windcatcher

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    Although the inter-racial marriage may seem inferred here...... I believe what isn't stated clearly but may be inferred has nothing to do with race and everything to do with harmony, agreement, unity, common values, same or complimentary interests, beliefs...... the old adage..... being equally vs unequally yoked together. Society, politics, socialism, has also added its demands upon the family, invaded the home with its values of permissiveness, and is enablers of those who make consistantly bad choices while threatening restraints against those values, beliefs, and discipline which structure a home and nurtures children.

    Would sending Christian children to public school help christianize the public schools? No way. It didn't back in the day when I went to school where the RC students had fish on Fridays, pork wasn't served, and every day began with a Bible or reflective reading with the Lord's prayer and pledge of allegiance, and a student could draw without censoring Christ on the cross, or a gun, or a soldier, or a car....... or, for that matter, a swastika. A code of dress allowed much but preserved modesty...... and there were rules for speaking in turn and being silent...... and a paddle done either by the teacher or the principal and no profanity allowed...... not so much as a --- (a word which sounds like the same thing man or beaver built that holds back water). Even then there were influences changing in society which opened up children to exposure and changes in behaviors.

    Visit a college campus, sit in on a few classes, visit the campus social or beer hall, observe the conduct of students: Peruse the rules regarding the dorms, the co-ed dorms, the movies being shown, the content of theatrical events, the speakers invited to campus..... the position of campus authorities, deans, and professors and the credential and outside involvements, including their religion and cultural background.... and you'll see the seeds of development which may go into the makings of a teacher (or a scientist, doctor, politician..... for that matter) which is the forming the transitional foundations of our modern public education system. When teachers are indoctrinated at the college or universities to approve diversity over cultural sameness, to promote inquiry, questions, understanding and acceptance of all religions outside the judeo-christian understanding..... because it is 'educational' or 'enlightening'' and 'broadens' one's perspective regarding those 'minorities' yet it devalues, restrains, or in other ways inhibits the Christian expression, these teachers... many of whom may not be from Christian backgrounds, many of whom may already have strong ties existant, supported, and even encouraged by our culture as adding to 'diversity'....... and you mute the christian influence of your children by the system we calll public, and expose them to issues and strange foundations before their own can be thoroughly built.

    Pray for our public schools, and our parents, and our children. There are many who cannot home school. There are many who cannot afford a private school. There are many dedicated Christian school teachers in our schools, doing the best they can with the strength God gives them.... and they are against so many many pressures to conform and/or face conflicts.
     
  11. abcgrad94

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    Very true words, windcatcher. Many of those teachers also face the threat of their livelihood if they do not conform. Unfortunately, this threat is growing to more professions, as we have seen on other threads in this forum. Pastors, private business owners, and other professionals are increasingly under pressure to be politically correct or face major conflicts. The gay-rights advocates are seeing to that.
     
  12. targus

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    Interesting... although in my mind not particularily Christian.

    Which category do you put yourself in?

    Winner or loser?
     
  13. saturneptune

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    I did not consider to situation a winner or loser for me. Shortly after retireing as an electronics tech for the federal government, this came along and felt it right that I should take it. It seems I am adapting to it against the odds. I feel a burden for these kids, and feel this is where I should be at this point in time.
     
  14. billwald

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    >I don't think interracial marriage is the cause of "winners" or "losers."

    Didn't mention race. At least in Seattle, before 1965 when we had redlining, The black community had the same range of winners and losers in their community as the white community, but at a lower economic level. I suspect that in two generations the vast majority of the US will be brownish colored and skin color will not matter.

    > A breakdown in homes in general has caused problems, but the reason why homes are broken down is because people have forgotten Christ.

    From Constantine to Rousseau the civilized parts of Europe were as "Christian" as US before Vietnam. Religion has never stood in the way of economics. Before WW1 80% of Americans were working poor. We are reverting to the mean. Only instead of the rock bottom being black and the tippy top being white, the new world will be tan at both ends.
     
  15. billwald

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    >Interesting... although in my mind not particularily Christian.

    There have always been a majority of poor Christians in Christian communities. St Paul complained about the local congregation kissing up to rich people. If the majority were well off then this phenomenon would not have been obvious. The rich person would fit right in and not be noticed.

    >Which category do you put yourself in?

    >Winner or loser?

    You want I should brag? The Wife and I have high IQ and college educations but are not ambitious e.g. to lazy to care about living rich. My pension is above median wage in Seattle. We have always has a couple of months pay in the bank and don't buy toys on credit. I think that puts us on the winning side.
     
  16. targus

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    You changed the bench mark - you did not speak of rich and poor - you spoke of winners and losers.

    So the rich are "winners" and the poor are "losers"?

    Sounds quite worldly to me... not Christian at all.

    A high IQ and a college education without ambition (or lazy as you put it) puts one in the "winner" category? Sounds more like a "loser" thing to me.

    And a "median wage" pension puts you in the "winner" category?

    That is exactly what your owners want you to think. :laugh:
     
  17. saturneptune

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    What does winners and losers, rich and poor, lazy and hard working have to do with public schools? Aside from that, I cannot say I ever viewed life in that framework. There is a sense of what one should be doing at a given time in a life, so you do it to the best of your ability and the providing for you or your family is takes care of itself, or in reality, the Lord takes care of it.
     
  18. abcgrad94

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  19. abcgrad94

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    Well put, SN. The Lord may have called you "for such a time as this" to be a light and godly role model to the children and other teachers in the public school. May God bless and reward your efforts.
     
  20. rbell

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    I'm not sure that Billwald is very concerned about Scriptural categories...he's more concerned about "winning" (and thus, others "losing.")
     

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