Purgatory?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by nate, Apr 11, 2006.

  1. nate

    nate
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    This is not a thread to bash Catholics or anyother Christian that might believe in Purgatory. My question is this-What Scripture is there to support the idea of Purgatory? And what reasoning is there behind it? Also if I'm not mistaken didn't Luther and Zwingli continue to believe in Purgatory? Thanks
    In Christ,
    Nate
     
  2. Chemnitz

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    No, Luther when he first wrote the 95 thesis believed in purgatory but later abandoned the teaching.

     
  3. webdog

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    There is no Scripture that supports purgatory, unless you believe that both Jesus and the thief on the cross went to purgatory together. I believe purgatory is taken from the apocrypha, which is not Scripture.
     
  4. music4Him

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    It has been such a long time since I had heard the explaination of purgatory that I forgot too. Probley forgot because it didn't line up with the bible.
     
  5. BobRyan

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    Purgatory is not in scripture - it is ALSO not in the Apocrypha.

    It is a current testament to the power of man-made tradition over the Word of God as demonstrated in the dark ages.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  6. BobRyan

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    The dark ages gave us Purgatory, Purgatory gave us indulgences - indulgences gave us Catholics saying "enough is enough! We protest!"

    And yet there are some non-Catholics here wanting to return to the dark ages!!
     
  7. riverm

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    I’d have to disagree with that statement Bob. The pre-Christian Jews believed in a type of “purgatory” as found in the book “The Life of Adam and Eve”, thus Orthodox Jews still today pray a prayer called the Mourner’s Qaddish for 11 months after the death of a loved one for that loved one’s purification. Catholics of course hold to the purgatory idea, as do Eastern Orthodox and from my research all believed in such until the Protestant Reformation.
     
  8. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    My bible says, "it is appointed for man once to die and then the judgement"

    No probably about it, there's no room for improvement after one dies! What ever you have done when you breathe the last breath, then that is the baggage you will arrive with.

    Purgatory is just another warm fuzzy that some one came up with because they just couldn't believe that a good person would be banned from eternal life.

    Later,

    Tam
     
  9. myfavoritmartin

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    Here is the verse that Catholics will point you to in their book 2nd macabees (if you except it to be holy spirit inspired.;
    2nd Maccabees, and in that book on Ch12:

    43 And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection, 44 (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) 45 And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. 46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.

    This is clearly "purgatory"
     
  10. myfavoritmartin

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    Most Catholics will give you the "spin cycle theory" meaning we must be cleaned before being in the presence of god and that's what purgatory is.
     
  11. Chemnitz

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    Sounds familiar.

    This and other doctrines have been created by various groups to cover loopholes in their doctrine of justification.
     
  12. Eliyahu

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    Purgatory is the worst concept among many stupid beliefs because:

    - Bible Truth says we can be saved by Grace thru the Blood and Death of Jesus Christ.

    - Some one says they can be saved by their own efforts and works. (even this is stupid idea)

    - Purgatory Hoax says:
    One can be saved out of Purgatory by the prayers, almsgiving, and donations of relatives and others.


    1)We don't believe even our own efforts and works. How can we believe that of others?

    2) We are often disappointed with other people even while we are living.
    How can we rely on others after our death?

    3) After we are saved by Grace, then can we rely on the efforts, almsgiving, and prayers of others? Look at Gal 3:3-5

    4) Interestingly, RC doesn't include Esdras which prohibit the Prayer to the dead while they include Maccabees
     
  13. myfavoritmartin

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    Purgatory screams out to me that believers in purgatory do not consider Christ's crucifixion sufficient. :( , Doesn't it seem as though this thinking may anger God?
     
  14. Eliyahu

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    When will it be deleted from RC doctrines as Limbo was?
     
  15. webdog

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    I agree, the word is not in the apocrypha, but the concept is...as was pointed out below from 2 Mac.
     
  16. Eliyahu

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    Purgatory bound people should read the followings:

    Purgatorial Fire

    At the Council of Florence, Bessarion argued against the existence of real purgatorial fire, and the Greeks were assured that the Roman Church had never issued any dogmatic decree on this subject. In the West the belief in the existence of real fire is common. Augustine in Ps. 37 n. 3, speaks of the pain which purgatorial fire causes as more severe than anything a man can suffer in this life, "gravior erit ignis quam quidquid potest homo pati in hac vita" (P. L., col. 397). Gregory the Great speaks of those who after this life "will expiate their faults by purgatorial flames," and he adds "that the pain be more intolerable than any one can suffer in this life" (Ps. 3 poenit., n. 1). Following in the footsteps of Gregory, St. Thomas teaches (IV, dist. xxi, q. i, a.1) that besides the separation of the soul from the sight of God, there is the other punishment from fire. "Una poena damni, in quantum scilicet retardantur a divina visione; alia sensus secundum quod ab igne punientur", and St. Bonaventure not only agrees with St. Thomas but adds (IV, dist. xx, p.1, a.1, q. ii) that this punishment by fire is more severe than any punishment which comes to men in this life; "Gravior est omni temporali poena. quam modo sustinet anima carni conjuncta". How this fire affects the souls of the departed the Doctors do not know, and in such matters it is well to heed the warning of the Council of Trent when it commands the bishops "to exclude from their preaching difficult and subtle questions which tend not to edification', and from the discussion of which there is no increase either in piety or devotion" (Sess. XXV, "De Purgatorio").

    from Catholic Encyclopedia
    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm


    I am glad that I don't go there by virtue of my Lord Jesus Christ and his Blood and Death for me.
     
  17. Claudia_T

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    doesnt purgatory mean purge-atory where you are supposedly purged from your sins?

    and isnt it like reincarnation giving you the sense that you have another chance when you really dont?
     
  18. BobRyan

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    The argument "From the text" is that APART from the literal bodily resurrection from the dead there is NO BENEFIT AT ALL to those prayers.

    The RCC error is that IN DEATH there is benefit I DEATH transferring the dead FROM purgatory to heaven BEFORE their resurrection.

    Ignoring "Details in the text" is how the RCC maintains its doctrinal errors. What is amazing is that this blindness is so complete its followers can repeatedly quote the same disconfirming details and STILL ignore them thinking they have made the pro-RC point.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  19. Melanie

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    ......but then when comparing the Bibles that non catholics and Catholics use are dissimilar in the ommissions .

    "But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written." John 21.25 (Douay -Rheims revised by Challoner)
     
  20. myfavoritmartin

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    [/qb][/QUOTE]
    Ignoring "Details in the text" is how the RCC maintains its doctrinal errors. What is amazing is that this blindness is so complete its followers can repeatedly quote the same disconfirming details and STILL ignore them thinking they have made the pro-RC point.

    In Christ,
    Bob [/QB][/QUOTE]
    I will agree with you on this, as I spent 3-5 hours a day over the last month on a catholic forum and witnessed this on almost every subject in question. whether it was purgatory,apparitions, celibacy,abstaining from meats,bowing to statues, venerating Mary and the saints,Tradition vs. Scripture, magisterium, papal infallibility, I can keep going but you get the point. I pointed directly to scripture that showed opposition and they in turn created their mental gymnastics they are so famous for.
     

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