Question About Lordship Salvation

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by BlackSheepBaptist, Sep 27, 2014.

  1. BlackSheepBaptist

    BlackSheepBaptist
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    Hello, I have a question about Lordship Salvation. gotquestions.org says, "Lordship Salvation emphasizes that submitting to Christ as Lord over your life goes hand-in-hand with trusting Christ to be saved. It also focuses on a changed life as the result of salvation. Those who believe in Lordship Salvation would have serious doubts about a person who claims to believe in Christ but does not have good works evident in his life." http://www.gotquestions.org/lordship-salvation.html

    So, my question for those who believe in Lordship Salvation is: do I have to believe that, or can I just do it? In other words, do I have to believe in Lordship Salvation to be saved, or can I just live the way LS says you have to live in order to be saved, to be saved? Does that make sense? You see, I'm puzzled, because Lordship Salvation doesn't seem to emphasize that you have to actually believe in it, it just says you have to do certain things. So, let's say, I just believe you have to believe on Jesus Christ to be saved, and I don't think you have to repent of your sins, or do good works, or anything else to be saved, okay? So, I DON'T believe in Lordship Salvation, BUT let's also say that I happen to stop making a habit of sinning and have a life of good works and I persevere in the faith until I die, okay? So I don't actually believe in LS, but I believe in Jesus Christ for salvation, and I happen to meet the other requirements in so far as how I lived, am I saved according to LS, or not? If not, why not, and do you think that Lordship Salvationists should maybe emphasize that a bit more if it's essential for salvation? I hope my question makes sense. I appreciate whatever input you have. Thank you. :thumbsup:
     
  2. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589
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    Good questions. Short answer. The Holy Spirit grants faith and repentance to God's elect and the elect will strive towards Holiness and be a disciple of Christ. Its not a works based system, as true converts will submit to the Lordship of Christ. With many it won't happen overnight, but the true elect whom God has chosen from the foundation of the world will strive towards holiness and christ-likeness. Lots of people these days advertise a gospel where you just make a decision but do not need to REPENT from your sin, and you can live anyway you like. They argue that one can have Christ as savior but not as Lord. They view Lordship as a separate process in sanctification. So in their view there are saved people that are homosexuals, New Agers, alcoholics, and practice all kinds of wicked things. Yes a Christian can sin and fall into a sin, but God will get him out. In the past I have fallen into sins, but the Holy Spirit broke me out an continues to sanctify me.

    Some good verses

    2 Corinthians 5:17---I highlight this one all the time when I open air preach that the true elect will be changed and will REPENT from their sins (Lk 13:3).

    Lk 13:8-9 hits on REPENTANCE well.
    8 Bear fruits in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you, God is able from hthese stones to raise up children for Abraham. 9 Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. iEvery tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”

    Galatians 5:22-23

    James 2:14-26

    Again very good questions and much more can be said. Are you open to reading? Some great books that speak of these doctrines and use many many scriptures to defend them are as follows.

    Faith Works---- Get it on amazon USED for a penny!
    The Gospel According to Jesus
    Todays Evangelism by Ernest Reisinger
    Tell the Truth by Metzger
     
    #2 evangelist6589, Sep 27, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2014
  3. InTheLight

    InTheLight
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    So far, so good...

    Sounds like you're saved to me.

    Your question takes on a dual meaning. You're saved according to the gospel, not someone's definition of LS.

    You seem to be asking, "If I meet all the requirements of LS, but I didn't know what LS was, would an adherent of LS consider me to be saved?" If this is your question, I can't answer because I don't follow LS, but my guess is that they would consider you a false convert. That's just the way they are.
     
  4. JamesL

    JamesL
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    Much like the question I asked to a Church of Christ member:

    Suppose I believe upon Christ, and I am baptized, but I do not believe baptism contributed to my salvation.....am I saved?

    His answer was no. In his mind, I must also hope in my baptism or it is of no effect.


    But on the Lordship issue, they really do not espouse hoping in Christ. Here are the two ways they classify faith:

    1) spurious, fake, false faith - believe the facts about Christ on an intellectual level, without any commitment toward Him or any "change" in your "life" - whatever that's supposed to mean.

    2) real, genuine, true faith - believe the facts about Christ in such a way that it drives you toward a commitment to Him. In other words, facts + action.

    They delineate between faith and trust, with faith being merely believing facts about Him, and trust redefined as obeying Him.

    But there is scarcely anything written about finding hope in His death, burial and resurrection.
    There is rarely mentioned a full assurance found only in His meritorious work.

    In Lordship mythology, assurance is found by looking at works.

    Also, they make the grave assumption that falling away from the faith = eternal damnation. But scripture doesn't support it.
     
  5. evangelist6589

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    Black sheep.

    Do not listen to this poster. He has a strong agenda to discredit Calvinism and cannot look at opposing views seriously.
     
  6. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki
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    You don't have to believe that repentance is necessary for salvation to be saved, you just have to have repented.

    You can repent without being able to give a doctrinal statement on what repentance is.

    The issue is not whether or not you believe in Lordship Salvation, the issue is whether or not you have repented of your sin.

    Also it depends on what you mean by Lordship Salvation, if you believe a person has to repent of their sins to be saved, then yes, if you believe a person has to yield every area of their life to Christ to be saved then no.
     
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    BlackSheepBaptist

    Hello BSB....welcome to BB.


    You see some here deny the teaching, some mock it...but let's see what Jesus said;
    46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
    47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

    48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

    49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.


    I would believe Jesus just as he said to. Real Christians know Jesus is Lord of all. For anyone to say biblical repentance is not necessary is to invent their own kind of salvation. There will be no such vain boasting in heaven.:thumbsup:
     
  8. DHK

    DHK
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    Most of them simply clarify their position, such as Jordan did.
    Without ceding to LS, Jordan simply said that repentance is necessary to salvation whether or not you have a theological definition of it. It is something that falls on LS advocates' deaf ears. They eliminate the process of progressive sanctification.
    First salvation/regeneration. Then at the same time one is a disciple who must be willing and able to forsake all that he has and follow Jesus. Nonsense!
     
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Nonsense!?! :eek: oh no......now your in for it bub! :mad: Don't you know that "the Calvinist LV crowd is out there, "making a list & checking it twice...going to find out who is naughty or nice ".... :smilewinkgrin:
     
  10. Aaron

    Aaron
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    Jesus saves. A Person saves you, not a doctrine. No one "makes" Jesus the Lord of his life. Jesus IS the Lord of his life. Do you believe in Jesus? Then you believe in the Lord Jesus. Do you believe His Words? Then it's counted toward you for righteousness. It is He that bears you. You do not bear Him.
     
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    There ya go....plain speaking truth!:applause: Good job Aaron....Good Job:thumbs:
     
  12. 12strings

    12strings
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    :applause::applause::applause::applause:

    Aaron, You need to post more stuff like this!!!
     
  13. JamesL

    JamesL
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    Post of the year right there.

    Good stuff, Aaron
     
  14. Aaron

    Aaron
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    :godisgood:
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    God save us as sinners by his grace, and we receive that through faith, and at that very moment we called upon jesus to save us, we were indwelt and sealed and forever justified by Him...

    Going forward, we are to become more like him, in the process of sauctification...

    Error happens when some have gone to the extreme of saying just receive jesus and no need to acctual live differently as a result of that happening to you, while other extreme is to say that unless jesus is the lord over all aspects of your life now, he is Lord over none, and doubt that you were ever saved!
     

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