Question about the Holy Spirit

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Mike McK, Mar 16, 2004.

  1. Mike McK

    Mike McK
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    Hello,

    I posted this in the "other doctrines" forums and there seems to be some confusion about it so I'm reposting it here.

    (If the mods would like to, please feel free to close that one)

    Here's my question:

    I'm having an ongoing conversation with a Oneness Pentacostal person right now and they asked me a question that I'm not sure how to answer.

    If the Holy Spirit is 1/3 of the Trinity and we assume that He is God, why doesn't He have a throne along with the Father and the Son in Revelation?

    Any ideas?
     
  2. donnA

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    I hadn't thought of this before. SO my first question(because I'm not looking It up myself) is, what verses in Rev. tell of two thrones?
     
  3. humble servant

    humble servant
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    I believe The Holy Spitit's presence surrounds the throne of God with Jesus at his right hand. The Holy Spirit is called back to Heaven at the time of Rapture leaving the world without it's redemptive pressence.
     
  4. Trotter

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    I have to go with Donna on this one

    As far as I know, the bible doesn't picture Jesus sitting on His own throne, but that of His Father.

    I, too, have tangled with a few Oneness Pentecostals. They are almost as contrary as the KJVOnly crowd.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  5. Frogman

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    Anyone accepting the idea of Christ having a throne takes this from Rev. 3.21 I believe. Jesus states he will grant to those who overcome to sit with him in his throne as he has sat down with the father in his throne.

    I do believe this.

    I would also answer in line with the post by humble servant. [​IMG]

    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  6. Mike McK

    Mike McK
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    But does this relegate the Holy Spirit to a "force", like WoF'ers believe?

    Does this assign submission to the Holy Spirit? Does this make Him lower in the hierarchy of the Godhead?

    I get where you're coming from but Christians and Oneness people assign different meanings to the same words so I'm trying to feel this out from all angles.
     
  7. Preacher Ron

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    What Scriptures do you have to support the theory that the Holy Spirit will not be on the earth after the Rapture takes place, I have never seen where it says anything in the Bible that states this.

    preacher Ron
     
  8. Mike McK

    Mike McK
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    I guess the obvious answer to this is, how else could John have seen Jesus sitting at the right hand of the Father?

    As for scripture, I guess the first thing that comes to my mind is Rev 3:21.
     
  9. Mike McK

    Mike McK
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    What Scriptures do you have to support the theory that the Holy Spirit will not be on the earth after the Rapture takes place, I have never seen where it says anything in the Bible that states this.

    preacher Ron
    </font>[/QUOTE]Ron, do you have any thoughts about the role of the Holy Spirit in Heaven?

    What do you think about what I asked about His not having a throne of His own?
     
  10. humble servant

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    But does this relegate the Holy Spirit to a "force", like WoF'ers believe?

    Does this assign submission to the Holy Spirit? Does this make Him lower in the hierarchy of the Godhead?

    I get where you're coming from but Christians and Oneness people assign different meanings to the same words so I'm trying to feel this out from all angles.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Yes He, The holy Spirit is the greatest spiritual force. He is also in submission to the Father. The Holy Spirit shows the will of the Father to Glorify His Son Christ.
     
  11. humble servant

    humble servant
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    What Scriptures do you have to support the theory that the Holy Spirit will not be on the earth after the Rapture takes place, I have never seen where it says anything in the Bible that states this. The Church will be in Heaven. There will be no born again children of God on earth. Christ will come and claim his bride.

    preacher Ron
    </font>[/QUOTE]I will get scripture on this but in the interim I will state that immediately after the Rapture the ability to be saved as we know it will be gone therefore the agent or catalyst of our Salvation which is The Holy Spirit will not be upon earth.
     
  12. Frogman

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    Dear humble servant,
    I do not necessarily disagree with you, but what do you make of the 144,000 Jews?

    I personally believe the Holy Spirit will be operating as you say from heaven instead of through the church (believers), just as he did in OT days. And I would say technically even in our day. Regeneration occurs only by the power of the Spirit of holiness.

    Just thought I would ask the above question, you can ignore all the rest of the mumbo jumbo if you want.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  13. humble servant

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    The reference to the jews makes a statement concerning the 12 tribes which each at that time is numbered at 120000. I believe God is keeping his covenant in the end with his people of the OT. This could also reference jews who died before the covenant of Grace. You ask a very good question. I will consult someone with more wisdom than I before I make a definite answer.
     
  14. Bartimaeus

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    The whole idea "seems" that the oneness crowd wants to deny the attributes of the Holy Spirit due to the fact that He may or may not have a thrown. Specifically the Lord Jesus Christ isn't said to have His own thrown either. Can they show you where the Lord Christ has a thrown and then if not can they be consistent? If the Lord Christ is sitting at the right hand of the Father at HIs thrown, is HE any less than what the Bible says He is or what He has proved himself to be? May the Lord bless you with wisdom and strength in the fight.
    Thanks ------Bart
     
  15. Mike McK

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    But is that all He is: just a force? Or is He God, as well?
     
  16. Mike McK

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    Right. I can show a dozen verses demonstrating that the Holy Spirit is God but she seems to be hung up on this one point.

    Rev 3:21.

    But when the Bible is referring to the "right hand", it's referring to authority and ownership of certain rights and priviledges, much like when the Bible uses the Hebrew phrase, "firstborn".

    It doesn't diminish His status as God in any way.

    My personal feeling is that this is a trivial question and I have no problem telling her that I don't know but I don't like to leave questions unanswered if there's an answer out there.

    Thank you.
     
  17. GODzThunder

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    The Holy Spirit is in fact a Spirit. He has no physical form and in truth cannot be contained in one single place. He makes up the omnipresence of God in the fact that He is everywhere all at once. Because of this he cannot sit upon a single throne. I believe in the Book of Revelation that there are seven Lampstands in heaven that represent the presence of the Spirit in the area of the Throne. (Not the candlesticks in chapters 2 & 3).

    Here is something to stir thought. Where in the Bible does it say that the Father has a physical presence????
     

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