Question for Catholics

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by JohnDeereFan, Dec 8, 2009.

  1. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan
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    **I want to begin by asking JohnV and other non-Catholics to respect that this question is directed to Catholics, not non-Catholics**

    I understand that there are a couple of Catholics here and I have what should be a very simple question for you:

    Let's pretend that I'm an unsaved person and am in danger of God's wrath on Judgement Day and am going to Hell.

    Please share the Gospel with me and explain to me how I can be saved.
     
  2. Agnus_Dei

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    Then look no further than Acts 2:38...those on Pentecost asked St. Peter the same question...

    Please reply to the class St. Peter's response...

    In XC
    -
     
  3. JohnDeereFan

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    Really? So that's what you would tell me? Just a glib "I don't have time to be bothered with you, just go look at Acts 2:38"?

    What do I need to repent of? Is that really all I need to do?

    What if I'm this guy:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RA-JzVxGTg
     
  4. Agnus_Dei

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    Are you really that dense? You asked the question JDF...how I can be saved?

    St. Peter began his sermon in Acts 2:14...which focused on two prophetic themes...(1)the promise of the Holy Spirit (verses 14-21) and (2)the Resurrection of Christ (verses 22-40). This Pattern of showing the OT prophecy being fulfilled in Christ is the central means by which the Apostles preached the gospel.

    This method of preaching led the multitude being cut to the heart, because they understood and had been prepared by the OT...over half of St. Peter's message is a quotation of OT Scripture...the evidence that Jesus Christ fulfills these prophecies is overwhelming to them.

    The multitude then asks in verse 37...what shall we do?

    St. Peter's answer defines Christian life within the Church...We must (1) Repent, (2) be baptized, and (3) receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    The Orthodox Church reflects this way of life. Catechumens first repent, confess their sins (I or anyone else can't tell you what to repent of, but I'm sure you know your sins better than anyone else) and renounce the devil. Second they are baptized by immersion. Third, they are given the gift of the Holy Spirit through chrismation.

    There's your answer in Acts 2 in black and white...and that is a pretty straightforward rendering of Holy Scripture that my 8 year old can understand...

    In XC
    -
     
  5. lori4dogs

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    Yup, gotta go with Agnus Dei on this. Acts 2:38 states clearly what is required for us to be saved.
     
  6. Amy.G

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    Do you believe that baptism saves?
     
  7. Amy.G

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    What is chrismation?
     
  8. DHK

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    1. The Bible says nothing of catechumens. It talks of lost sinners needing to be saved. The OP stated
    Explain to me how I can be saved.

    2. Your idea of repentance is not Biblical. I won't define it right now for you, but will ask you: If you need to repent of your sins, can you remember all the sins you have ever committed so that you will be able to repent of each and every one of them. Keep in mind the OP. What must I do to be saved? Repent of ALL my sins?? Are you sure you can remember them all? What is repentance? Are you sure you know?

    3. What does renouncing the devil have to do with the gospel (see OP)?

    4. What does baptism have to do with either the gospel or salvation?
    The OP--What must I do to be saved? How does baptism save me?

    5. If the Holy Spirit is given through chrismation, then what evidence does one look for to see if one has the Holy Spirit. Do you get a special feeling? How do you know you have the Holy Spirit? What evidence is there that chrismation gives the Holy Spirit? Can you give evidence for this statement; proof, documentation, anything to back it up??
     
  9. JohnDeereFan

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    So then, your idea of evangelism is "go read Acts 2:38"?
     
  10. JohnDeereFan

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    I've got to be honest, if someone had come to me and said, "go read Acts 2:38" before I was saved, I'd have smiled politely and thought they were nuts.

    I'm so glad that the person who shared the Gospel with me actually cared enough to take the time to share the Gospel with me.
     
  11. targus

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    But isn't Scripture sufficient?

    Why do you suggest that someone needs another person to help them in order to be saved?
     
  12. JohnDeereFan

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    First of all, look at the Ethiopian Eunuch. He had the scriptures right there in front of him and still needed Philip's help.

    Second, walking up to an unsaved person and saying, "read Acts 2:38" is pretty much meaningless because (a) unsaved people tend not to care what the Bible says, (b) it does not adequately tell them how to be saved. It just says repent. All religions teach repentence in one form or another, (c) it doesn't tell them what they're being saved from or why they need to be saved in the first place.

    If just saying, "go read a Bible verse" was a valid form of evangelism, then Jesus, Peter, Paul, and all of the OT prophets would have done that.
     
  13. Agnus_Dei

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    Did you not READ Acts 2? Do you even own a Bible?

    St. Peter shared the Gospel with the multitude...as a result, they were CUT TO THE HEART...or the Holy Spirit convicted them...then they asked...what must we do?

    What better example of leading one to Christ than Acts 2? Talk to them about Christ, who He is...show them the OT prophecy being fulfilled...the promise of the Holy Spirit, and Christ's death for the sins of the world and His Resurrection from the dead...IT'S all right there!!!!

    Then when they ask, what they must do to be saved...use St. Peter's answer!!!

    Talk about sola Scriptura!!!!

    In XC
    -
     
  14. JohnDeereFan

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    I've got to tell you, consistently insulting and attacking the person you're supposed to be sharing the Gospel with is certainly a different method of evangelism than I've ever seen.

    What in that verse is supposed to convict me? "Repent"? Repent of what? Why? What about all of the other religions that command people to repent?

    I've got to be honest with you, if this is your idea of evangelism and you asked to join our evangelism team, we wouldn't be able to accept you.

    But we're not talking about examples of leading one to Christ. I am asking you to pretend that I'm an unsaved person and share the Gospel with me, the same as you would if we met on the street.

    I already know who Christ is. He seems like a very nice guy. What does that have to do with me, an unsaved person?

    So what? If I'm an unsaved person, why should I hold those prophecies any more seriously than those of any other religion?

    Oh, so Christ died for my sins? How do you know I'm a sinner? If Christ already died for my sins, then I'm good to go.
     
  15. Agnus_Dei

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    Baptism is for the remission of sins...Holy Scripture is quite clear on the subject.

    St. Symeon the New Theologian had this to say regarding baptism:
    Baptism does not take away our free will or freedom of choice, but gives us the freedom no longer to be tyrannized by the devil unless we choose to be. After baptism it is in our power either to persist willingly in the practice of the commandments of Christ, into Whom we were baptized, and to advance in the path of His ordinances, or to deviate from this straight way and to fall again into the hands of our enemy, the devil.​

    In XC
    -
     
  16. JohnDeereFan

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    Actually, that's not "holy scripture".
     
  17. Agnus_Dei

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    Here's an example of Chrismation outlined in the NT...

    St. Paul's work in Ephesus is recounted in Acts 19.1-12. Here we see that some who had been baptized with the "baptism of John (the Baptist)" were eager to accept Christ.

    When they had heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Verse 5)...After this, we see that Paul "laid his hands on them" and the "Holy Spirit came upon them" (verse 6).

    Another instance of confirmation in the early Church is seen in Acts 8:

    Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, who went down and prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit, for it had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. (Acts 8.14-18)

    In XC
    -
     
  18. Agnus_Dei

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    Duh!!! Which is WHY I contributed the QUOTE to St. Symeon the New Theologian...jeeze...

    In XC
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  19. Agnus_Dei

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    Why do I feel like I'm at the dinner table with my 8 year-old going over homework?

    So I guess based off Acts 2, St. Peter would be denied "acceptance" into your little evangelism club? Well, I'm in good company...I'll stick with riff raff...:laugh:

    In XC
    -
     
  20. JohnDeereFan

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    Why do I feel like your eight year old is being seriously short-changed?

    You falsely assume that all Peter did was tell them "go read a Bible verse". Peter actually got up and preached the Gospel to them. Unlike you, Peter was actually interested in talking to them and seeing them saved. All you've done is say "just go read a Bible verse".

    The difference is that Peter is one of the examples we model our evangelism on. You just use him as an excuse to justify your lack of interest in evangelizing the lost.

    Honestly, if you had no intention of answering the question, I don't see what you hoped to accomplish by disrupting the thread.
     

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