Question on 1 Chronicles 20:3 in NASB

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by ElainaMor, Feb 12, 2014.

  1. ElainaMor

    ElainaMor
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was reading in 1 Chronicles 20 this morning in the NASB and when I read verse 3 I was startled: "He brought out the people who were in it, and cut them with saws and with sharp instruments and with axes. And thus David did to all the cities of the sons of Ammon. Then David and all the people returned to Jerusalem."

    I know for the era this wouldn't have been so unusual but it seemed out of character to me so I looked up the same passage in other translations, NKJV, ESV, NIV, ect...and they all say something to the effect that David set the people to labor with saws, sharp instruments and axes not that David had these people basically hacked to pieces.

    Anyone have any theories and to why the NASB chose to translate this passage as "cut them" instead of "set them to labor"?
     
  2. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,972
    Likes Received:
    129
    This may challange your view of preservation but the NASB is translating the Hebrew word “cut” as it is recorded in the Hebrew text.

    Other versions believing that the word is incorrectly recorded, translate what they think it should be, following the parallel text of 2 Samuel 12:31.

    Rob
     
  3. prophet

    prophet
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2010
    Messages:
    1,037
    Likes Received:
    2
    David cut the ground of the cities, not the people, as was the custom of the day.

    2Sa 12:30-31
    30 And he took their king's crown from off his head, the weight whereof was a talent of gold with the precious stones:and it was set on David's head. And he brought forth the spoil of the city in great abundance.
    31 And he brought forth the people that were therein, and put them under saws, and under harrows of iron, and under axes of iron, and made them pass through the brickkiln:and thus did he unto all the cities of the children of Ammon. So David and all the people returned unto Jerusalem.

    He brought out the spoils and people, and then razed their cities, plowed up their streets, chopped down their orchards, burned the bricks.

    1Ch 20:2-4
    2 And David took the crown of their king from off his head, and found it to weigh a talent of gold, and there were precious stones in it; and it was set upon David's head:and he brought also exceeding much spoil out of the city.
    3 And he brought out the people that were in it, and cut them with saws, and with harrows of iron, and with axes. Even so dealt David with all the cities of the children of Ammon. And David and all the people returned to Jerusalem.

    He destroyed cities in this story.

    2Sa 17:27-29
    27 And it came to pass, when David was come to Mahanaim, that Shobi the son of Nahash of Rabbah of the children of Ammon, and Machir the son of Ammiel of Lodebar, and Barzillai the Gileadite of Rogelim,
    28 Brought beds, and basons, and earthen vessels, and wheat, and barley, and flour, and parched corn, and beans, and lentiles, and parched pulse,
    29 And honey, and butter, and sheep, and cheese of kine, for David, and for the people that were with him, to eat:for they said, The people is hungry, and weary, and thirsty, in the wilderness.

    And apparently, some of the Ammonites were grateful that he spared them.
     
  4. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,972
    Likes Received:
    129
    Various other translations

    And he brought out the people that were in it, and cut them with saws, and with harrows of iron, and with axes. Even so dealt David with all the cities of the children of Ammon. And David and all the people returned to Jerusalem. (AV 1873)

    And he brought forth the people that were therein, and cut them with saws, and with harrows of iron, and with axes. And thus did David unto all the cities of the children of Ammon. And David and all the people returned to Jerusalem. (1901 ASV)

    And he brought out the people that were in it, and cut them with the saw, and with harrows of iron, and with saws. And so David did to all the cities of the children of Ammon. And David and all the people returned to Jerusalem. (DARBY)

    And he brought forth the people that were therein, and cut them with saws, and with harrows of iron, and with axes. And thus did David unto all the cities of the children of Ammon. And David and all the people returned to Jerusalem. (JPS 1917)

    And the people that were therein he brought out: and made harrows, and sleds, and chariots of iron to go over them, so that they were cut and bruised to pieces: in this manner David dealt with all the cities of the children of Ammon: and he returned with all his people to Jerusalem. (D-R) [Latin translation]

    And he brought out the people that were in it, and sawed them asunder with saws, and cut them with iron axes, and with harrows: and thus David did to all the children of Ammon. And David and all his people returned to Jerusalem. (Brenton LXX En) [Septuagint (Greek) translation]

    and the people who are in it he hath brought out, and setteth to the saw, and to cutting instruments of iron, and to axes; and thus doth David to all cities of the sons of Ammon, and David turneth back, and all the people, to Jerusalem. (YLT)
     
  5. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    Without charging all those translations that put them to work, with malfeasence, lets look at how the NASB reads:

    3 He brought out the people who were in it, and cut them with saws and with sharp instruments and with axes. And thus David did to all the cities of the sons of Ammon. Then David and all the people returned to Jerusalem.

    Here we see, according to the NASB that "them" is inserted. So this reverses the meaning. The people cut with saws and such. Thus they were put to work. So the difficulty evaporates if you do not add to the actual text.

    Here is how the WEB handles the verse: 3 He brought out the people who were in it, and had them cut with saws, with iron picks, and with axes. David did so to all the cities of the children of Ammon. Then David and all the people returned to Jerusalem.
     
  6. thisnumbersdisconnected

    thisnumbersdisconnected
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    8,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    The parallel passage to this is in 2 Samuel 12:26-31, particularly that last verse.
    2 Samuel 12, NASB
    31 He also brought out the people who were in it, and set them under saws, sharp iron instruments, and iron axes, and made them pass through the brickkiln. And thus he did to all the cities of the sons of Ammon. Then David and all the people returned to Jerusalem.​
    " ... made them to pass through the brickkiln." The Hebrew 'abar is translated "pass through," and that is literally what it means. Malben is "brickkiln" or "brick kiln," again, exactly what it says. It is the same phrase used for the Canaanites who made their first-born sons "pass through" the fire of Molech. In other words, they were burned alive. As were the sons of Ammon, cut up, then burned. Serious retribution for their sins.
     
    #6 thisnumbersdisconnected, Mar 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2014
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,097
    Likes Received:
    49
    Could at times, there be a problem in the minds of the translators in that they might not see God allowing david to do that thing?
     

Share This Page

Loading...