Question that arose last night...

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by skypair, Mar 12, 2008.

  1. skypair

    skypair
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    ... is Jesus ever shown giving the tithe? How about Paul? Are there instances in Acts that anyone can point to? I can't think of any nor could my wife.

    It won't "shake my world" one way or another but it might be enlightening.

    skypair
     
  2. Allan

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    As a Jew, Jesus was 'required' to give tithe.
    He even told the Pharasees that not only should they have tithed but should not have left off the more important aspects of the Law.
     
  3. TCGreek

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    I'm in full agreement with Allan here. :thumbs:

    One other thing: Jesus said, "Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's" (Matt 22:21, tniv).

    I would imagine tithing to be in mind here.
     
  4. standingfirminChrist

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    Wrong...

    As a Jew, Jesus was not required to give tithe. He came to 'fulfill the Law.'

    While the Law did require tithing, there were a certain group of Jews that were not required to tithe, i.e., the widows, the poor, those who did not own farmland to raise crops on and those who did not raise livestock. All of these were not required to tithe according to Law.

    Jesus did not own land... "The Son of man hath nowhere to lay His head." He did not raise livestock or grow corn, wheat and such grains as one tithed with. The Law concerning Him did not require a tithe, He did not tithe.

    He did pay taxes though.
     
    #4 standingfirminChrist, Mar 12, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2008
  5. TCGreek

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    What do you mean by "fulfill the Law"? Did He keep any of it at all? That's the issue here.
     
  6. standingfirminChrist

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    Christ came to keep the Law that was given to the Jew. As a Jew, He kept it and fulfilled it.

    But, He was not required to tithe. His Word declared who was to tithe. That was only farmers and herdsmen... and He did not make either of those His career while on earth.

    Had He tithed, He would have gone beyond the Law required of Him. Scripture does not declare Him as doing such.

    As to the Pharisee He exhorted and admonished, notice He did not mention money in the list of things tithed?, just that which grew in the field?

    Money was never required as a tithe until some greedy preacher brought that command in.
     
    #6 standingfirminChrist, Mar 12, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2008
  7. standingfirminChrist

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    Oh, and let's not get tithes and firstfruits mixed up. Tithes are the tenth, firstfruits are the first of the crop or herd.

    The command was not that the first of every ten cattle to pass under the rod was to be the tithe and holy to the Lord, but the tenth of ten... every tenth cattle. The tenth is not first.

    Nehemiah 12:44 is clear in distinguishing the tithe and the firstfruits as two different things.
     
  8. TCGreek

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    So like a Pharisee, who was neither a farmer nor a herdsman, Jesus should have tithed from the field?
     
  9. standingfirminChrist

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    It is quite evident from the verse that either the Pharisee was not tithing and only trying to impress the Lord with lies, or the Pharisee did indeed own property on which he grew the things he tithed with.

    Had Jesus owned property and grew grain, then yes, He should have tithed. But He did not own property and therefore was not obligated to tithe.
     
  10. Palatka51

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    Matthew 17:24-27
    24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
    25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
    26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
    27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

    The Children of the KING are free my Brothers. The Children of the inheritance can spend it as they will. However, the Children should out of a godly nature contribute what is needed to further the Kingdom of Christ. Not grudgingly but by what is purposed within your heart to give as a cheerful giver.
     
  11. standingfirminChrist

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    Exactly. It is not about tithing for the Christian, it is about grace giving. Give as the Lord prospers and with a willing and cheerful heart and He will accept it.
     
  12. TCGreek

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    I'll agree with you on Jesus but not on the Pharisees.
     
  13. standingfirminChrist

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    Do you have some kind of proof text from the Word of God that the Pharisees could own no land or farm?
     
  14. TCGreek

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    1. These are the words of Jesus:

    "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

    2. Jesus clearly says that they gave a tithe and then goes on to contrast such with what he calls "the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness."

    3. I see no reason to treat this otherwise. They indeed gave a tithe.
     
  15. standingfirminChrist

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    The Pharisee indeed gave a tithe, he had to own property to tithe the things he did.

    I never said he did not give a tithe, I said either he was lying about tithing or he did tithe. Go back and read the post.

    Again, if money were part of the tithes, it is funny Jesus never taught it, nor did He commend the Pharisee for tithing money along with the other things that were tithed.
     
  16. TCGreek

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    Sorry I didn't include everything in my reply.

    But notice from Matt 23:23 that we have both Pharisees and Scribes not just a Pharisee.

    So you'll have to make an equal argument for many Pharisess and Scribes having the ability to tithe.
     
  17. Crabtownboy

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    Tithing or .....

    Actually I believe that if you look carefully at Christ's teaching he requires more than a tithe. He requires all ....

    But let's look at tithing:

    Matthew 23:23:

    "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former."

    Notice Jesus said, "You should have practiced the latter (justice, mercy and faithfulness), without neglecting the former (tithing)." The early church fathers argued, and rightful so, that Jesus word ends the discussion. Since Jesus said not to neglect the former—being tithing—then no believer should neglect tithing.

    Paul wrote:

    1 Corinthians 9:13-14 and says,

    Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

    Paul argues that just as the priests got their food from the tithes of the people, so the preachers should live the same way. This passage clearly shows the mentality of the apostle and his understanding of carrying over the concept of tithing into the church.

    2 Corinthians 9:7:

    Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

    However, this verse is not talking about giving to the church, but giving to the poor. So this giving is above and beyond the tithe.

    One last point, no where does the New Testament say that tithing is abolished.

    But as I said, I think Christ requires more than the tithe. Christ requires our all, our willingness to give all, our money, our material possessions, our lives to Him. As D. Bonhoeffer said, true discipleship is costly, it may cost you your life.:jesus:
     
  18. skypair

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    I think Jesus was making a "jab" at one of the 613 "laws" they had added to the Mosaic Law. Wouldn't it be curious indeed if they didn't have to go and buy their own cumin? Yet they tithed of that which they got by themselves, not from God.

    skypair
     
  19. Rubato 1

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    I'm not sure Jesus ever personally handled any money. Judas carried the bag, made the purchases, etc. Jesus even sent Peter to get the $$ from the fish and to pay the taxes. So, in aswer to the OP, I don't think there is an instance of Jesus paying a tithe, giving alms, or even making a purchase. (maybe this means Christians can shoplift...)
     
  20. Crabtownboy

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    Tithe

    Would be interesting if we knew more about Christ before he began his ministry. I have always thought he ran the carpenter shop with Joseph. If Joseph died before he began his public ministry it would seem logical that he ran the shop by himself. Would he have tithed from the earnings. I expect he would have done so.
     

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