Question to our SDA friend

Heb 9 "Without the shedding of blood there is NO forgiveness of sins".

the Scapegoat is not a sin offering and without a sin offering no atonement for sin.

If you have an example of a non-sacrifice being the symbol used for obtaining forgiveness - please show it from scripture.

In Christ,

Bob

 

GE:
I'm not a SDA. I have no Congregation to attend. Sometimes only a few of us are able to come together ON GOD'S DAY OF REST and worship Him. Precious occasion! Wish it could be every Sabbath ... maybe soon, I believe. If not then when Jesus will come again on the earth recreated.
So I find the Internet a great help to fellowship a little - not near the real thing of course!
We have our views on the keeping of the Sabbath Day, and be sure work and Law are not for us the Sabbath's main content - not ours, in any case. For us the Sabbath is about the work of God - which is His ultimate act of rest through Jesus Christ in the raising of Him from the dead "In the Sabbath's fulness of day" (Mt28:1).
What does a Christian more require for believing and enjoying The Sabbath of the LORD your God?

 

Shiloh said --

That is me quoting Shiloh

That is not Shiloh quoting ME or Adventist doctrine.

Just thought I would add some actual facts to Shiloh's post.

in Christ,

Bob

 

So your three references are absolutely useless for negating what God had blessed, what God had sanctified, what God had finished in, what God had rested upon - absolutely, useless. In fact, your three references each and every one, confirm the Seventh Day of God's "thus concerning speaking", the Christian Day of Worship Rest.

Sevvy Balesteros is known for saying, when the golf enthusiasts arrive at his golf-courses to play: "I say hallo to them; I pat them on the shoulder, and wish them good luck; and I think: I'm going to destroy you!

 

If you have an example of a non-sacrifice being the symbol used for obtaining forgiveness - please show it from scripture. Bob

How wonderful - when asked for one thing - Shiloh gives "something else" but if we check closely JESUS DID DIE For our sins AS A SUBSTITUTIONARY ATONING sacrifice - and OFFERING FOR SIN.

Why is this concept so difficult for you Shiloh??

In Christ,

Bob

 

Sinful? Perhaps. But lekker!

 

BR:
"if we check closely JESUS DID DIE For our sins AS A SUBSTITUTIONARY ATONING sacrifice - and OFFERING FOR SIN."

GE:
You haven't checked closely enough, dear Bob.

If we check closely Jesus did DIE for our sins, God's substitutionary, atoning, SACRIFICE, and ROSE, an OFFERING for sin. Jesus had nothing 'offered before the LORD' until raised from the dead.

Can't you get it? I doubt not you can. You won't admit ... that's the problem with you!

 

I fully accept the Atoning Sacrifice full and complete ON THE CROSS and I accept the High Priestly ministry of Christ stated in Heb 8-10 POST-Cross IN HEAVEN NOW appearing before God FOR US!

I also fully accept that BOTH of these are referenced in Lev 16's teaching BY GOD on the doctrine of Atonement.

What is not to get? How could anyone possibly turn a blind eye to this?

in Christ,

Bob

 

Shiloh said --
Quote:
So, what should we tell the SDA that tell us the full payment for our sins is not complete until the devil pays for them?


I have to say this is absolutely strange that this person doesnt seem to get that we arent saying nor have we ever said the devil "pays" for any of the believer's sins. Its weird.

and it doesnt seem to matter just how many times you say it or how many ways you state it, either.

oh well. :sleep:

 

GE:
What you turn a blind eye to, is the Atoning Sacrifice full and complete ON THE CROSS, is "OFFERED, BEFORE THE LORD", in the resurrection of Christ from the dead. See, again you have subtly removed it from the total context of full and final ATONE_MENT, right in this statement of yours!

And what you are further totally incapable of comprehending, is that the "ministry of Christ stated in Heb 8-10 POST-Cross IN HEAVEN NOW appearing before God FOR US", NO LONGER is "atonement" being made for sin. It is just what it is - just what you have said it is. And it is for the saved ONLY. Jesus now reconciles no one with God; He had done so on the cross through resurrection from the dead.

 

The Atoning sacrifice of Christ was FULL AND COMPLETE at the cross FINISHED at the Cross.

I have said that consistently - but I do not choose to turn a blind eye to Lev 16 telling us that the Atonement PROCESS also includes the high priestly work of Christ.

I accept BOTH

 

1Tim 2:5
[/B]5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,




Heb 5
8 Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered.
9 And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation,
10 being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

 

GE:
So if the devil pays / atones for the wicked, is it not just just (applying your logic) that the wicked should be saved too?

 

GE:
I'm not blind; you consistently have talked about "atoning SACRIFICE at the Cross" AND, "the Atonement PROCESS" after. So the sacrifice did NOT to your thinking complete the Atonement; you are INconsistent.
But God's atonement is NO process; it is His "ONCE FOR ALL" complete deed finished in the ONE death and resurrection of jesus Christ - beginning with and in and through His suffering hell and death, and ending with and in and through His conquering hell and death in and with and through and by resurrection from the dead.
Jesus' ongoing intercession is founded upon this finished work of His and is to the benefit of those only under the privelege and benefit of His reconciliation and atonement through death and resurrection.

You deny it in toto by denying it in part. You refuse the redemption God offers you in Christ by rejecting the atoning and saving power of His resurrection.

 

How many times have we said the devil doesnt atone for anyones sins? Let me count the ways... :flower:

 

The Devil pays for the wicked???

The Devil atones for the Wicked sinners who are lost and go to the lake of fire???

Where do you get that stuff??

in Christ,

Bob

 

The glaring error in your argument is that you mix YOUR OWN definition in with God's AS IF God has said what you wish He had said.

GOD is the one that wrote Lev 16 - NOT SDAs.

GOD is the one that points us to BOTH the full and complete "ATONING SACRIFICE" of the Lamb of God SLAIN for the sins of the world - AND to the WORK of the HIGH PRIEST In that "DAY of Atonement" PROCESs HE gave us in Lev 16.

So when we read that GOD SHOWS us where and when the High Priestly ministry of Christ takes place in Heb 8-10 we don't simply BLAME SDAS for what we read in scripture.

You WANT to argue that the "ATONEMENT" is definined as the "PRICE PAID at CALVARY" that OMITS all that God said about the High Priest's role in the PROCESS of atonement in Lev 16.

I say "Well IF we could accept your man-made definition and DOWNSIZE God's Lev 16 PROCESS to JUST the Atoning Sacrifice -- then yes it was completed at the cross and we all agree to IGNORE the other details God gives in HIS WORD in Lev 16".

Of course it is not the PROCESS we SEE in Lev 16 because YOU say it is not and why should we listen to what GOD SAID in Lev 16 to the contrary when we have YOU to tell us otherwise!!

I never considered that as a valid means of Bible study - but I suppose that is the only way to get man-made tradition inserted IN PLACE of what God actually said!

Christs ATONING sacrifice completed at the cross was ONCE FOR ALL completed and finished in His Death and Resurrection.

Indeed the ATONING SACRIFICE completed. (See 1John 2:2 NIV)

Exactly - that is how Lev 16 shows the work of the high priest that takes place AFTER the finished work of the goat SLAIN and it is what Paul shows Christ doing in Heb 8-10.

End of story.

In Christ,

Bob